She looks like Robert Smith from the Cure in that pic.

lol this has been a fun talk, but we aren’t ever going to see one another’s point of view. Men and women are about even in the population. I doubt anyone is telling dudes to put down the seat in a male-only establishment or bathroom, so I don’t know what you mean otherwise. I’m sure that on a construction site, or…

Yes I agree with that, as a third alternative- a single user neutral bathroom. Especially in a large building, there really is no reason why this shouldn’t exist. And it does sometimes. I just meant that you can’t put another group at risk in order to protect a different one. Transmen’s safety is not more important…

Well, I’ve looked at those stories and only the first and last seem to be what you are claiming (men who claim or pretend to be trans in order to access women’s facilities and assault them). The others are different situations or they are simply incidences of trans people who are also criminals, which is also the case…

That's probably true of high traffic places- like probably true in airports at main hours. But there have been plenty of times when I enter a bathroom and I'm the only person in it or there is just one other person.

Whoa, I didn't say I didn't believe you. In fact I explicitly said that I did believe you, but that I did not find anything like you said, and that if you bring up new information, really you should suggest what to read. Actually I appreciate you sending me those links because after your last post, though I did not…

That is possible. I don't see how that is an argument for cis men to use the same restroom as women though.

No. Seat down is the preference 3/4 of the time that toilets are used. Since men and women both pee and shit, then a full 3/4 of the time, the seat is going to be down. On top of that, there is the obvious benefits of approaching a toilet with the seat down- so that you don’t land your bum on the open rim. Most women…

I’m not talking about assault at all. I have no idea what the stats are like, but my guess (uninformed, just a guess!) is that any particular group’s level of violence against transgendered people would be similar to their level of violence against gays or cis women, etc. What I was referring to is homophobia as…

Yes, but I think (in the US at least) our views about being naked around our peers have changed to make us MORE modest. I didn’t know until recently, but it was pretty much the norm in the US and UK for all male sports clubs to be totally nude while swimming as recently as WW1. So if you went to a public pool or went…

What? Why shouldn't they? It's THEIR need.

Well I did just google it and looked at the top three hits. One said there are zero reported cases of this happening. (I doubt that. I bet it is a very statistically rare thing that does sometimes happen.) The next two talk about how this is a persistent myth and try to explore why. I’m sure that you have read…

There are always going to be outliers that cause risk. Right now, a man can enter a woman’s restroom and wait for a good time to assault a woman. I’m sure it happens. Right now, also, a man can dress up like a woman and pass, enter a restroom and watch women pee or assault them or go into their changing room in a gym.…

Wait a minute. Who are the oppressed people whose injustices we need to consider in this scenario? The whole debate has started because transwomen need a safe place to use the restroom. They HAVE that safe place. It's called the women's restroom. How in the world is it a balance of harms decision to say that cis men…

The second one, I don’t think is true. The first one absolutely is. Men assault and harass women. That is a fact. Not all men and all that, but they do it at a high enough rate already that we really don't need more places where we are vulnerable. This is not paranoia- it's statistics. Men are a threat to women far…

I'll tell you the difference. A man can maybe dip into a woman's room a few times in his life without any consequence. But if he's a nutjob pervert who keeps doing it because he gets off or is looking to assault a woman, he will get caught pretty frequently if he's entering or hanging around in women's restrooms.…

Yes I've always wondered about that too. I suppose it's about the plumbing- like the establishment wants to pay only for one urinal rather than putting a urinal in both rooms. But I don't really get the point of urinals in places that have such little bathroom traffic that they can handle having single room…

Oh yes, that is so true. Usually they are called "family restrooms". But usually I've seen these in the sort of places that have one room with one toilet. Like, there'll be a stalled large woman's and a stalled large man's and then a small one room "family" that is gender neutral. I don't know how this would work if…

YES! That's what I was wondering. It's not like someone stops you at the door to inspect your junk. If you are a transwoman, use the woman's bathroom gal!

Dude, I totally get what you are saying, but let's be clear also that when it comes to being conservative in terms of homophobia and transphobia, it's not the lily white crowd that are the worst.