That doesn’t do anything to explain the gun violence per capita of the US. EVERY other first world democracy seems to figure out how to have a balance of power without arming everyone with handguns. And we also have a military with sonic weapons and drones - so let’s not pretend guns balance anything at that level. I…

I agree. I wasn’t saying copy-and-paste - more that those countries have systems in place that work for them from top to bottom and we need to find our version of that. Just banning machine guns, for example, won’t fix things. And don’t get me started on single payer. I still don’t understand the general resistance…

you’re funny.

ya but.. i... i want... Look - i just love the look of the thing... can’t that be enough???

You’re on to something.

I agree that the that the whole thing should be started fromI agree that the that the whole thing should be started from the ground up. I am not calling for what they currently count as gun controll. I think we need something that starts deeply within the system and works out from there. Mirroring somewhere like…

According to that article, not badly actually consideringaccording to that article, not Batley actually considering the lax gun laws elsewhere

I just like to offer my condolences on the death of reasoned discourse

Really? It’s as easy to kill with a knife or rebar? Would you rather be carjacked at knife point or gun point? And that it’s a societal issue is exactly my point.

Oh, i didn’t know it was the idiots who were responsible. No problem then. Carry on.

My beliefs? That gun violence is out of control and we’re not focusing on the solutions and being pandered to? That only my belief?

That’s a straw man. I never said we should “remove the guns from legal hands”. Man, the term “gun control” has become such a biased term. It’s become a rallying cry for the second amendment. Canada has legal gun ownership in spades. More per capital. Until we stop being manipulated into thinking that gun control means…

But that’s my point. The reason they made the law in the first place was because of the high murder rate. We need to make an institutional change or it’s all set up to fail. It’s why Chicago is a bad example in either direction.

the principle worked fine for VW.

This is exactly the problem. You restrict guns in one tiny area with terrible violence, don’t do anything about the overall number of guns or the institutional problems, call it a failure before we can even get a handle on what the laws are doing and continue business as usual. Meanwhile everywhere else in the world…

Wait, are you saying that Chicago had few guns? What are they shooting everyone with?

Sing it!

exactly right. It’s the guns people are carrying around that are the problem. Glad we agree.

No, but I bet it was once purchased illegally and then stolen and added to the unbelievably large number of available fire arms. The number of guns on the street is directly the result of our culture of guns. We’re not even allowed to discuss it without being called an asshole.

Head in the sand, too hard, don’t try. Why do anything?