Really? I live in smallish-town Utah, and I freaking love it when the missionaries come over. I feed them and tell them about all the news. They're forced to listen to Iron Maiden while giving the first discussion. I try to not wear a bra. And I chain-smoke the whole time.

we need a "snarky feminist ex-LDS creep factor" support group for times like these...

This is all true. My dad has taken to refusing to come into my house until my mother verifies that I'm dressed appropriately. Added to the squick factor is that my parents are in their 70s, and "inappropriate" is a tank top that curves in on the arms, perhaps sometimes when the baby pulls on my shirt exposing my…

I will see that and raise you a lecture on choice and accountability when shopping for non-temple-worthy clothes from magazines where girls showed their legs.

I'm really, really glad that you live in a place that you have the luxury of telling me to fuck off for not being as far along the political path as you. I'm mega-stoked those places exist. We don't all live there. I am so, so glad that places exist where you get an occasional "dyke" hurled your way and your fight is…

That's absolutely true. I guess I'm most interested in getting them to redirect their efforts elsewhere so you guys can get stuff passed.

No, it won't, but if we're looking for a single thing that will we should get ready to lose. The opposition is many and varied; so should our plan of attack be. That's all I'm saying. If something resonates with someone, why wouldn't we use it to our advantage?

I think maybe I'm more cynical than you give me credit for here! (also, thanks for that!)

My heart is breaking for you, really. I haven't been there, but for years I thought I would be.

Oh, definitely. I wish there was a "reply all" on these threads: I'm talking about framing. It's the same incremental fight we're having elsewhere from a different angle that can resonate with the opposition.

I don't disagree that it won't (edit: and really, shouldn't for all the reasons you've pointed out) happen. My argument is more that we need to reframe the debate when we're talking to the other side. I find that liberals from conservative areas tend to talk like I do, about how marriage is inherently religious and…

I certainly see your point, but I think maybe I'm not clear on mine.

Well, yeah. But I think that quite a few people who support civil unions don't support gay marriage, and vice versa. For example, here in sunny Utah with the centrists (hah!) you'll find a lot of support for civil unions but not much for gay marriage. Religious people are afraid of governmental power, so they'll hold…

Hearted, because I've been saying this same damn thing for years.

Right, but the fight is about the word marriage. If we take that off the table for everyone as far as civil secular society is concerned, it pretty much makes the "marrying gays" thing moot.

Marriage is historically a religious word, as in "the sacrament of." The idea here is to make a cultural shift back to that, where the secular government would recognize registered domestic partnerships for everyone - gay, straight, even caregiver relationships, as two people who have decided to merge their adult…

He had rabbinical permission. It was a safety issue, because it was a public clinic in a city where white supremacists gathered. And those people need some damn therapy. I assume it's like the temple-garment waiver the Mormons give to athletes in team uniforms.

hearted.

He, and this is why I love him, gave me the key immediately and loudly. Every night. "Here, baby, I might lose this. You'd better put it in your purse."

I'm actually a mere lurker elsewhere. I started commenting when people started paying me to write things because I realized I need to learn a thing or two about cogent points and snappy statements. This...seemed like a good forum.