Probably a really fast transition in the Doppler effect along with the native sound the engine makes.

Unless its in Afghanistan under high hot conditions and then you are down to about 5 guys if you are lucky.

I was an Apache mechanic but there is something about the those Cobras that are awesome.

Are you sure that is not the APU? If it is the APU it produces no thrust its sole function is to power the on board systems till engine is spooled up.

"Rapid Raptor." The exercise would see a handful of the world's most advanced fighters being deployed under some incredibly austere conditions.

Tyler nailed it perfectly when I was in Iraq the loader failed about 1/3 of the time. We hated when the pilots when go practice shooting for the hell of it. I would rather load hellfire's and rockets over 30mm because the 30mm was the most problem prone. They probably have ROBBIE tanks in so there is only 300 rounds…

Because Apaches like to run when you turn them off they can have all sorts of problems like BUCS failures. (Former Apache Crew Chief here)

Yes, and you are expert in such matters. The Mariners fill a role that they do very well and they do it on the cheap in comparison to the Army.

When I was in Afghanistan that basically had ATV's they modified to their needs. We could have it loaded and unloaded along with about 30 guys in about 30 secs. I was CH-47 Aircrew and we did it several times.

No problem I completely understand I have been in your shoes many times. You loose a lot of the nuance of the debate in a text format. Sometimes we can read things into the written word that we would dismiss standing face to face due to body language or facial expressions. Sadly though this probably the only way you…

I will certainly grant you that. I think you and I are very close to in our thoughts on the issue I think our biggest point of contention is how much blame to assign where. I feel more blame should be placed on crew and the people that supported them than the airlines itself. Could the airline have taken more…

Ok so you fly in a high risk fly zone why? Why is it a futile discussion you and I have different ideas that we debating on a forum. Now going back to what you said even if they captured a Ukrainian system they have to be taught or some with knowledge of how the systems works has to operate it. As far as flying in a…

Wrong analogy it was not considered war zone above 33,000 feet. Because it takes a very sophisticated system to shoot down an airliner at or above that altitude. Normally those type of systems are tightly controlled by a nations military. Most of the time a nation does not want to be responsible for shooting down a…

The Airline is not at fault for being shot down that is a stupid assertion. That is like saying its your fault for being robbed because you were carrying money.

I read your quote and you still did not address my accusation you place more blame on the airlines than the responsible party operating the SAM sight.

Ask the Airlines this would not have even been discussed if nothing happened. They would have continued to do business as usual. The problem with your argument is you are trying to put the blame on the airline or aviation in general and it user of the SAM system that's at fault.

Maybe but it costs more to fly around the restricted airspace. Airlines run on razor thin margins now as it is. I guess the airlines felt the risk was small enough to keep flying though the area.

The FAA has been in an awkward position since the CAA and CAB was disbanded. The FAA is tasked with both the promotion of aviation and the safety of aviation and sometime those ideas work counter to each other.

Before the shoot down the subscribed altitude of no lower that 33,000 feet was prudent since it takes a SAM system to take down an aircraft that high. Most likely the though was no one was stupid enough to take down a civilian airliner. I guess the Russians or Ukrainian Separatists proved that wrong. Every civilian…

That's because politicians severely limited what the military was allowed to do. If they were taken off the leash we would have new allies like Germany and Japan at the end of WWII.