Hmm, interesting. I thought it was clear they were moving forward to threaten. I guess they were in your view moving in to protect him? See this is why we need more sigils! (good Lord I'm a nerd).

The Karstarks were pretty dang loyal. When their Lord got his head cut off they helped Roose Bolton betray Robb Stark and they all abandoned the Northern army en masse.

Definitely. Neither ice nor fire are the good side. The regular people in the middle, and the old gods of nature, are the good side.

They would get ambushed while drunk or visiting prostitutes. They didn't get slaughtered en masse at Dragnak's pit.

Except the strength of the American army is it's technology, close air support, artillery, armor, weapons. The strength of the Unsullied is unparalleled training in hand to hand combat. I don't find the comparison particularly valid.

I also don't think she will win because that would be kind of unsatisfying. She'd essentially be restoring a Kingdom that didn't really work great when it existed, nothing would have really come from thirty years of war and turmoil. Millions dead in the process. Maybe that's the ultimate joke, maybe GRRM is that much…

I feel like Game of Thrones isn't "fiction". It's its own genre, fictional history. It's not historical fiction, it's fictional history. That's why so many of his fans pick apart historical allegories and look for details in the real historical record.

Overall I agree, but I don't think it matters, because what you describe is what GRRM does! It's why I love the guy! He doesn't (often) create villains. Is Jaime a villain? Danny isn't, but I root against her, because her actions rarely have good consequences. Also while her "rights" are important to her, why should…

Ha, I'm missing the whole thrust! You think you're reading a hero's journey. GRRM spends an entire book with A Feast for Crows describing the overwhelming horror of war, how the regular people suffer, the rape and murder and despair; and you think a wannabe conqueror is the hero? Everywhere she's conquered so far is…

Just like she used that whip to take all the soldiers in Astapor. No wonder Essos is such a mess, they have all these built in, easily exploitable loopholes.

I think we're talking past each other. I was saying Royce would have had men of his own standing behind him, his own guard. Not "Vale soldiers". In the books a Lord like Royce would go nowhere without Lords. Like how Ned Stark brought fifty men with him to King's Landing.

A land with no supporters that has already just been through a war, is facing a long winter, and could starve. She will cause untold misery in her quest to conquer. And we're all supposed to cheer? Sorry, I don't believe in the divine right of kings, I was born in America.

The dragon egg hatching was done as part of a blood magic ceremony, she wasn't fire proof. GRRM explained it all. The other instances were at most +10 fire resistance. Again, I hate myself for this. I wish I could just watch this scene. Instead it conflicts with my preconceived notions and it brings me out of it…

She has completely destroyed Slavers Bay and turned Astapor into a smoking pit of despair, and her ultimate goal is to conquer Westeros in "Fire and blood". Currently she is recruiting her army for that purpose from a group of people known for raping, pillaging and enslaving people better than themselves. Yeah, she's…

But I also think the story GRRM is telling is a more hopeful one. I've always thought, based on the roughly correlative history, that we're going to see the story end with the creation of the rule of law and semi-democratic institutions, the way the Magna Carta was really enforced after the War of the Roses.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though! It's inconceivable to the Dothraki someone could break their sacred rules like that. It's inconceivable to the Astapori someone could welch on a deal when they have what they want and haven't yet paid. So many conveniently trustworthy evil slavers/raiders!

Yeah, of course. But since he is a pretty major Lord, and they were on his lands, if this had been the books those would have been Royce's soldiers. If the Vale went to war they'd all fight under the same banner and colors, but the armies are collections of "bannermen", not modern standing ones.

Yeah I get that, I love those books though for that very reason. No one nails the details like GRRM.

Blood magic as a result of the dragons birthing. Not fire resistance.

This show differentiates between the houses of a Kingdom only very rarely. The Knights of the Vale are the Knights of the Vale, it seems, with Royce just being a part of that. Same with the Lannisters, Tyrells and Baratheons. The Northern Lords are the only group that's been explored in any way, with the Karstark and…