Can you cite the reports? The lead up to her death was that because of a pre-existing heart condition, she was turned away from several doctors. The doctor who performed the fatal surgery was Jan Adams, who is very much American. So...do you have an actual source or are you just trying to save face?

Kanye's mom died in California. She didn't leave the country for any surgery. Are you getting her confused with somebody else?

Maybe if she had gotten them done before she became famous, I'd believe this. But while she was dating Kanye? I find it hard to believe that Kanye would have allowed "his" woman to get illegal butt injections. He's so image-obsessed, I can't imagine he wouldn't have sprung for something a bit more high-end. He…

But doesn't that patronize people in a sense? Surrendering your child is not the first thing most people's minds will go to, even in a desperate situation. They are contemplating that because the other options haven't worked, in most cases.

I agree. The sentiment seems to be, "We need to make sure that they really, really know what they're doing and that we can't change their minds." Which...yeah. It's not the greatest sentiment.

I'm torn on these. I totally understand that people need to address the underlying issues that would lead somebody to leave a child in one of these.

Just. Stop. Talking.

And just remember - this guy is the Tea Party favorite to run for 2016. Just...keep that in mind.

I like Gordon. There, I said it.

Not just voted - voted for him in incredible margins. His last election he got 60% of the vote. He was insanely popular for a good portion of his tenure. Now, not so much.

They know. They really, truly know. They just don't care.

Um....you didn't address my whole second portion of the argument - that Jez features actual substantive commentary, whereas Fashion Police does not. Which was...sort of the point.

But I never said Jez DOESN'T participate in this stuff (despite your insistence that I did). What I said was that Jez also publishes substantive and important content that has value. Fashion Police has none - hence, the show has no substantive value and is largely useless.

Uh, now you're attributing to Jez overall what you initially just attributed to me. Your logic skills could use some sharpening.

Uh, nope. Jez might post that stuff, but it also posts more. Unless you're really, really new here, you know that the Jez staff also does actual investigating and substantive stuff.

But it's not self-contradictory. The point is not that Fashion Police sometimes says nice things. It's that the show is completely frivolous. Jez is frivolous at times, but also hosts substantive and important content. So does just about any newspaper in America - so I presume you have beef with those as well. In…

But it's beside the point that they say nice things about the clothes. The point is that the show is frivolous and has no substantive content. Sorta like yourself, there, sweetie.

Um, nope, I never denied that Jez sometimes posts content I don't like. But, uh, here's the difference - Jez is a website. I can choose to not click on that stuff. I don't give it page views. Jez also posts decent, substantive material that has actual value.

So Kelly's whole defense is that people shouldn't say it about Zendaya because she's her friend?

No, I said that a show that is SOLELY devoted to such a pursuit is a problem. Jez may have issues, but Jez also has redeeming value in its substantive content.