Bummer about the big NV vans. I shopped thoghtfully before I bought our NV 2500 High Roof V8. The Mercedes Sprinters just had SO little equipment vs the horrendous reviews real owners gave them. The Ram Promaster is, I think cool, in an old 50s Citroen van kinda way but the there is no place to put your left foot when…

Very likely. It’s not exactly comforting, from my experience. Quite the opposite.

The sound on the bridge is insanely surreal, loud and horrible, like something a “bad guy” would play to torture a “good guy” in a James Bond movie.

We drove across the Golden Gate on the first windy day after the changes, in our tall, but generally fine-in-winds Nissan NV Highroof. This was before any news reports about the sound. I’ve driven across the Golden Gate, between 7,000-10,000 times, in all conditons. I know that bridge very well. Besides the van being…

YES! This is the sign of incapable designers. It’s that simple. What if Maytag designed a washer with no knobs or buttons, because, eeewm they’re not cute. Or a hair salon with no chairs, because, sitting is so formal. It’s just lame. Figure it out designers, it’s your job. 

“The designers” are incabable of “designing.” If they need six grilles (most of which are probably fake) to avoid the front end from being some other kind of failure, they absolutely are not designers. BMW has lost it. But perhaps the directive was “gauche, in excess,” in which case it’s a rabid success.

The profile looks like a Mustang. The front looks like a “waskully wabbit” with braces. The rear is ok. Aren’t coupes suposed to be beautiful? What a pigpen of fake crapola. Does it really need SIX front grilles and two fake grilles on the back? This. Is. Inept. Design. 

We just sold our 2002 BMW 325it. No rust, 165,000, sport package, leather, heated seats, auto, second owners. Only got $2500. It was pretty much immaculate. Regardless of that price, DAMN was that an impressive car after 18 years on the road. Shockingly reliable, zero rattles (and I’m basically horrified by rattles),…

You sound cool and fun. The secret is out. Van drivers have more fun BECAUSE they’re so versatile.

I know you’re being sarcastic, but a proud moment for me, everytime I’m hauling a TON of stuff in my Sienna is looking over at some dufus in a big macho truck with a 4' bed who can’t fit jack in his bed compared to all the loot INSIDE my van. Yep- van snobbery exists.

YOU must haul kids, LATCH seats but based on this thread of people who DO take the seats out, you’re making presumptions that are probably right sometimes but ain’t right all the time.

Lots of us take the seats out. The beautiful balance of luxuriuous ride paired with killer versatility is obliterated by this stupid new design. 

His needs match mine. Not all van drivers fill them with kids. I’ve got a cargo van also (a Nissan NV2500 high-roof) and it’s brilliant for a huge van but the daily driving experience compared to a nice Sienna is night and day.

I’m with you. I felt dumb getting a ‘19 knowing that the new model was coming eventually but I’m glad now. No removable seats is the death of my long Sienna run.

After looking into the similiar issue with the non-removable middle seats in a Kia Sedona, it sounds as if to get the seats out, you’d have to have a body shop do it. Put the van on a lift, un-screw from beneath the floorpan, disconnect the airbags.. a nightmare. I’d assume getting the 2020 Sienna seats out is the…

I’ve had four Siennas. Though I haul family members, occasionally, I also haul plywood, antiques, furniture, camp in it... because it’s so flexible and modular. They were brilliant vehicles until now. The incredible deletion of removable middle seats means I’m out. Loyal doesn’t equal foolish. When Chrysler pioneered…

I’m with you. The beauty of a van is its versatility. Up to 2020, you could haul your family or your fridge in a Sienna. From now on, it has the utility of an SUV with slightly smarter space utilization. Bummer. Fixed seats = fail.

We’ve had Volvos (Superb seats) BMWs (definitely good but not amazing), Siennas (decent but the middle row seats are insanely luxurious), Saab 9-5s (super) but the big surprise, is our huge, high-roof Nissan NV2500 cargo van has FANTASTIC seats. No fatigue, no heat, no cooling but surprisingly, for a cargo van,…

I’m so with you. I thought the “night panel” button on Saabs was silly till I used it. When you want to DRIVE the distraction of unnecessary lighting is just bad. Turn off the Reno lighting and grab the wheel.

He is noted as asking for all blacks off the casino floor when he and Ivana arrived at his casinos. He called for the execution of five latino men accused of rape- who were all innocent. He was sued in 1973 for telling all African Amercian lease applicants to be told there were no available apartments (and that they…