Way to go off the point. What I mean is that while you are considering the question of consent in a very black & white way, I, in this particular case (Jaime & Cersei's) is willing to accept that it is very grey. simply because I don't have enough information on what their sex life is. The only person who can…

I think you are giving him a lot more credit than he deserves. When I see Jaime Lannister I don't see a kind, loving guy. I see a hot head who will take what is his. What you think is love, I consider it an obsession (wrt Cersei). So, after 20 years of a lust fueled affair, when Cersei wants to end things, he pretty…

Yeah, but does he consider it rape? or is he one of those guys who doesn't consider it rape 'rape.' You know cuz "she has already had sex with me hundreds of time. why will she say no"??

Monster to Cersei? There is no way Jaime thinks that he raped Cersei. To him it was no different than the hundreds of time they have had sex in the past. You are projecting what are your feelings about the scene on the character that was involved. Even if Cersei tells him that he raped her, I don't think he will…

Consider this- Say I've been married to woman for 10 years. We both love each other very much. One night she is feeling particularly horny and wants to have sex. I don't. so I say no. But she doesn't listen, starts fondling me, kissing me etc maybe starts giving me a handjob, i resist at first and then i think what…

This makes sense.

Yeah but it is murder, so is murdering someone in "the heat of the moment" so to speak, or deliberately with careful planning, different crimes, different punishment but murder all the same

Totally agree. In real life yes. But this is a TV show, so just because a person might think that that was 'maybe not rape' doesn't really mean that they are morally bankrupt or dangerous.
I mean people love watching Hannibal and some even love that guy doesn't really mean that they will condone murders and cannibalism

Whoa! A drunk driver killing someone in an accident is not accidently killing someone.
and self defence is not murder. The analogy works fine.

You are completely missing my point. I didn't equate rough sex with non consensual sex. I am trying to explain why Jaime did what he did and why Cersei may not be too pissed at him. Like you brought up maybe they were specifically into rape role-play (just because we have never seen it onscreen doesn't mean its not…

The point about juries wasn't about moral compasses but as an example on how a lot of people will disagree about 'its the same thing' part

Again, not denying that marital rape is a despicable crime. But as an analogy consider this- murder is also murder, yet we have different degrees of murder, each carrying different punishment. A drunk driver killing a guy in an accident and a sadistic murderer carving somebody open with a knife are two different…

Is the willfully obtuse part directed at me?

If its for the reason I gave in the previous comment I can see it being considered 'not rape.' But otherwise yeah, rape.

Jaime has always been an awful person who lacks morals.

It totally matters what kind of relationship they had. Maybe they have always liked it a bit rough. Maybe none of them has at anytime denied the other of sex so why would they start now?

I'm pretty sure a lot of people will disagree with you on that point. I mean being violently gang raped by 5 guys and being raped by your lover of 20+ years is different. Both rapes but different.
I'm not even sure most juries will convict the lover guy. He'll probably get away by using miscommunication as a defense

Actually most people agree that this was rape. What people are disagreeing about is that it is out of character for Jaime to do it. and those who deny that this is rape are also keeping in mind that both of this character have been in a passionate, illicit relationship for 20+ years, I'm willing to concede that the…

I totally agree about it being a disaster.
I think what NKW says makes total sense. It will depend upon a person's interpretation of the scene. Keeping in mind that both of these characters have been in an relationship for 20+ years, maybe they take consent 'for granted.' It is completely different from what was about…

Fucking This. I wish I could shove this comment in the face of anyone who claims that this is totally out of character for Jaime.