Never thought I’d hear “S4" and “relative bargain” in the same sentence, but you’re right - that’s certainly part of it. And the incentives matter on the dealer - mine told me I should pay the 55k for the coupe and be happy with it. I laughed, went to get the Lexus I wanted instead, and ended up with a G37 because…

Of course I’m looking at what’s important to me - I shop for me, not someone else, after all. I’d still take an S4 over the ATS-V for that matter - got some money in mods there for the S4, and it’s still a far nicer car (or get an RS3 and go totally nuts). I also live in Denver, so the Cadillac V6 is down 100hp to the…

I’m thinking of the mid-range normal cars: Last time I priced them out, I got 55k for an S4 with the dynamic suspension and color/interior, and 55k for an ATS coupe AWD with the same options... Which of those two would you take? I don’t know about you, but there’s zero chance I take the Cadillac on that one - weaker…

No, they need to stop shipping cars that don’t match up and charging more. Performance is one thing, but at 55k, I expect more than just performance (or I’d buy a used 4C). Especially when a similarly equipped S4 costs the same or less than an ATS Coupe with the generic V6 and a far worse interior, never mind the…

Yes, but the competition performs ~almost~ as well, has a far nicer interior and overall experience, and costs ~less~.

Good. He was completely out of touch with what people actually want to buy, and what it takes to actually compete with the cars/brand he was trying to compete with. The BS answers he gave here when queried about the lower-quality interior and design of the ATS/CTS in comparison to the Germans/Japanese (especially when…

Pass. Every time I do, other than basic maintenance, the car comes out worse than it was before, I’m paying someone to fix/finish it after I’m done, and I’m pissed off and tired and closer to despising what I ride. Not worth it in the slightest.  

Platform does not a good or bad car make, it is just a platform, nothing more, nothing less - only part of the equation.

Because the market and the consumer says that GM has no idea what they’re doing and has bought fewwer of them than anything else competing. Because it’s a shitty out of date car from an out of date company.

I guess we’ll see. If so, then more power to Ford. It’s priced itself out of my consideration for anything these days, but I hope it works out for them.

It might have once been synonymous with affordable performance, but a GT with PP, Magneride, exhaust, and a color other than black is a 48k car. That’s no longer affordable - it’s up there with the premium cars now, and it’s still a Mustang - it’s a toy, and that’s a pretty expensive toy. I don’t know anyone buying a…

We’re talking a few thousand dollars difference there for new, and ALL of them can be had year old CPO with a warranty.

I agree, but will a Mustang that is starting to crowd the S4/etc in price still sell? Sure, it’s nicer, but it’s still a Mustang... I worry that there’s a limited appeal to one in that price range. Cross-shopping at 25k puts you against the WRX and the BRZ and occasionally (deluded souls) the 370Z... at 48K (GT + PP1…

The previous version still had the 5.0 and over 400HP - I assume you mean the 4.6 version circa 2010? Because in 2011, when the 5.0 came out, MSRP with delivery was 30,495 for the GT. Well optioned (I seriously looked at one) you topped out at 38,000 or so. Now, optioned out puts you into the upper 40s, if not 50k,…

The GT starts at 35k before delivery. They used to end up there after ticking option boxes...

Yep. I get it - I do, I paid 64K for my dream Camaro, which is still JUST a Camaro, but how many people have those as dreams anymore?

New Stingray (guess those have climbed a bit though), new M240i won’t be far off, S4/S5 are within spitting distance, C43 is pretty close, and if you’re willing to look a year used you can find a TON more (used GT350, used ZL1, etc).

They used to be the affordable “pony” car, but all of them are starting to climb above where that’s true. I get that cars are more expensive, but in that range there are a LOT of really fun options...

Yeah. I70 closed and snow laws are on. They’re stuck.

Yep. Positive traction laws. You can use chains, if you’d like - they’ll allow that instead.