My comment stated facts and figures, and a reasonable argument. Your reply was just name-calling. If that’s how you respond to facts, then I guess we aren’t going to get very far in this discussion...

I know many more FR-S and BRZ owners than you have ever known who are still into their cars many years later...

And we will have to agree to disagree on things. It might irk you when people say that you simply don’t understand the BRZ, but that does seem to be the case, and I’m sorry if that offends you.

A very intelligent reply, good sir!

Pretty sure the new Miata would pull bus lengths on an FRS.

You’re confusing “facts” with “statistics.”

This is why I said you still don’t understand the BRZ. The BRZ is not a statistics (numbers) car. It is a car whose SOLE purpose is to be a fun car, that gives a specific kind of feeling to the driver. You can’t “quantify” feeling, or as you might say, feelings aren’t “facts.”

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More power means more tire to put that power down. More tire means more wheel. More wheel and tire (and more brakes) means more weight. More weight means re-tuned suspension, and more tire means more lateral loads, which means beefier suspension. Beefier suspension means more chassis bracing. More tire also means more…

You were right with your original post when you said “Maybe I just don’t get it.”

The BRZ is not a numbers car... which you clearly don’t understand.

The pony cars have come a long way, but even the best of them still feels huge compared to the BRZ. They also require much wider tires to manage the same kind of handling with that much more mass, which makes them a bit more of a handful to slide around.

They’ve closed the gap a bit, but they’re still a very different…

You can’t just compare apples to oranges, dude. It isn’t as easy as you think it is to FACTORY TURBO the BRZ. Everyone seems to assume that if Subaru wanted to turbo the car, they would literally just slap a turbo on it and call it a day. In reality, it would be much more complicated, involved a HELL of a lot of…

“Lack of standard features.”

Also, 1990s miatas weighted 2100 lbs... so, your examples just make the BRZ look worse.

Meanwhile, Tesla pushes back deadlines on new technology due to manufacturing and design issues, and they get hounded by everyone.

I suppose. I will say I disagree with the “Lap 1" excuse that everyone keeps bringing up. That makes sense further back in the pack, but Vettel was literally in front of everyone, so... it’s not like he used the runoff because of a clusterfuck of cars he needed to avoid running into :P

That doesn’t make any sense, though. That wider line is essentially a wider corner, which allows you to carry more speed. It is absolutely an advantage. You slow down for that corner because you have to turn. If you don’t have to turn as much, you don’t have to slow down as much, which is how Vettel got past Hamilton.

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Oh Rezvani, you so silly!

I hate in-car shots where the character driving is endlessly see-sawing the wheel back-and-forth. Do all actors play the part of a novice driver who only looks 10 feet ahead of the car?

Just because he completed the pass before going off-track doesn’t mean the two events aren’t related. The only reason he was able to scoot ahead of Hamilton was that he carried much more speed into the turn, knowing he had runoff area to use. Had there been a wall there, he wouldn’t have been able to execute the pass.

Just because he completed the pass BEFORE going off track, doesn’t mean the off-track isn’t related to making the pass. The only reason he was able to scoot in front of Hamilton was by carrying so much speed that he was forced to go off track. That’s what I’m saying. He knew he had that run-off, so he knew he could…

You’re right. “Experienced professionals” have NEVER been found to inconsistently penalize people in any sort of sports ever in the history of mankind. /extremeamountsofsarcasm

The opening lap rules are to allow for congestion, as you stated. They were both at the front of the pack. Vettel going off had nothing to do with track congestion, or avoiding other cars, and everything to do with him wanting to pass Hamilton. Also, not sure what you mean by Hamilton forcing him wide. Hamilton was on…