Right. But other people perceiving it probably didn't need the origins explained to them, and it's not some obscure reference.

This is like the hipster-est racism argument ever. "Well, if you look at the origins of blah blah blah, you'll find that it was appropriated by blah blah blah, and that makes the song racist."

Lindy, my point is not that it's easier... it's that given it's current connotation and the distance from the actual song, that it's kind of moot.

It's like "Well, not buying a Volkswagen is just as easy as going and buying something else." But at this point, it just doesn't really matter anymore. If you have to look…

Wait, WHA?

So, it's less bad to have roots firmly rooted in the attempted extermination of all Jews than to have a song that was re appropriated to have the N-word and stereotypes in it?

You saw racism based on context that doesn't really exist anymore, and that had to be shown to you. That's seeing racism in the past,…

The point is that BMW is the same company. Different people, different products, but the logo is still propellers on sky.

The song, though the melody is the same, is played by new ice cream people, and not perceived the same. How can you say that it hasn't changed?

You're totally allowed to have an opinion. I'm not saying that you're not, or that your opinion is totally invalid. I just disagree, and think your perception seems to be more about what you think than what she thinks.

I'm also trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, because it seems like her expressions are about…

Sorry. I meant you've completely missed my point.

And my point is that racism is based on intent and perception. And if the intent is gone and the perception is gone, a melody isn't really racist.

You've completely missed the point.

Edit: You've missed my point. Sorry.

It's because Jews run Hollywood.

-AJewWithAMother

Back to the Volkswagen example... It has roots in the Third Reich. Is it racist?

If you re-read carefully, the racist version is a re-appropriation of the song through modification. The reason you're making the link is that the ice cream association was based on the racist interpretation.

But the point isn't that you have to change the song. The point is that the song has been changed. It has no…

Sorry, but I heartily disagree.

That would imply that no one but Jews could be allowed to listen to Wagner, or volkswagen beetles should only be used with the express written consent of major league Jewball. Both things are associated with, and were written or designed during, the third Reich.

"sneaked by" implies that the intent is to be racist, and for that racism not to be noticed. Which I disagree with. I would think most people, both operators and frequenters of ice cream trucks, probably don't associate the song with racism... they associate it with ice cream.

We're not talking about a slur. We're talking about a melody.

Right, but this song didn't start out as something racist. It was a melody borrowed from other sources used for something racist, and then in that context (long forgotten) became associated with ice cream.

My point is that the song is more associated with ice cream in general than with racism or its racist roots.

But the work itself isn't racist once the words are removed.

Not to mention that the Volkswagen beetle was, quite literally, commissioned by Hitler from a man that later designed tanks for the Reich.

So, I don't see how your differentiation is appropriate.

Because the modern iteration of Ford has about as much to do with Antisemitism as "The Lion King" or a bar of soap, when not presented in the context of their not-so-loving-of-the-Jews roots/history.

It's okay to educate people, but to suggest that it has to be eradicated because of racist roots that most people have…

You're thinking of the V2 rocketpop.

That is a great play on words, and I encourage the use of puns.

If you have to explain why a song is racist, based on it's long forgotten roots and not current context, maybe it's not so racist anymore? (Note: I'm not arguing that racism doesn't exist, just providing a counterpoint.)