“Zeven Provincien Class destroyers”

“ that can save a nation from civil war”

They don’t even want them. They don’t even want any more of the NSCs. Everyone seems to want to force the CG into ownership of more ships. Meanwhile they barely have the manpower or money to sustain what they already have.

I’m not arguing that they did a good job. I’m just saying that at least they tried. I’m a firm believer that positive economic growth is the ONLY thing that can save a nation from civil was or insurgency. And the numbers don’t lie. Iraq is better off today than it was 15 years ago.

And then there’s Syria - Government Fixing 3.0.

The US tried a lot harder in Iraq to setup and protect a fledgling government. We basically walked away from Libya. Two approaches to the same problem, both ended with similar results (for the receiving country). In fighting, decentralization, economic shambles, and an influx of terror groups.

I think we’re pretty much at the same place based on your second paragraph. Armor equivalency was explained to me as a means of equating RHA tank armor schemes which are a combination of several plates at advantageous geometries (not necessarily composite), to a single thickness of hardened steel.

They’re getting the same radar that LCS 25 is getting it’s the next generation of the TRS-3D, the TRS-4D. The designed the VLS system in at the sacrifice of A LOT of berthing and other systems. So now they have a notoriously undermanned ship that even more undermanned.

Well you make such a convincing argument. I’ll have to go reevaluate my very existence now.

“I’d argue that a Cyclone class equivalant would be exactly what you need.”

It’s an organizational thing. Since the CG was moved under the DHS there’s less cooperation than before. Subsequently more work has fallen to the Navy due to their omnipresence. The Navy needed another design because of lessons learned. We’ve retired the last three classes of surface combatants on average 11.2 years…

Yeah use those CGs to hock down those Colombian drug runners and stop those pirate skiffs!

I’m fine with that, but that means the ship needs an anti-air radar (which are much more expensive). Although I would probably advocate for a deck mounted or non-VLS solution, just because you need to give VLS 2 decks and ton of reinforcement in a design.

“Of the four you listed, certainly counter piracy, drug interdiction and anti-submarine (surface) warfare all could be prosecuted with a large caliber (57-76mm) gun.”

From what I’ve been told, tank armor equivalency translates directly to solid armor thickness. In other words a 2 foot thick armor belt should preform identically to a 2 ft equivalent which is really several plates in various geometries.

It’s an increase of 3 ships to winner, but the reality is that both bidders know damn well that the Navy can’t change a thing on those designs or they’ll open up an opportunity for those bidders to ding them for non-recurring engineering costs. So the Navy will ask for 16 ships with minor mods that’ll essentially keep…

DietDrPhil summed it up rather well, but I’ll add on anyways.

As much as I respect Tyler’s work he doesn’t have a clue about the differences between US and European shipbuilding (survivability standards, lethality, Operational Availability, etc.). None of those ships are more survivable, nor are they cheaper. They may have more missiles and bigger guns, but that doesn’t equate…

The fact that they ended up with two designs was purely political and has nothing to do with modularity. Modularity was one of the tenets of the design when we thought it was going to be down selected to one builder. You’ll continue to see modularity in form on the next two classes. Stanflex,

Minehunteing, counter piracy, drug interdiction, anti-submarine warfare. Which of those requires (or can even leverage) a large caliber gun? Not to mention the NSC is a POS in it’s own right (their asses keep wanting to fall off). And remind me again about the NSC’s armor? Better yet, tell me about all the armor on…