He was NOT raising good points. As a gay man I find it difficult to tell if other men are interested in me or even if they are gay. When I am introduced to men in a work setting, should I just grad their body parts and see how they react? No? Why not?

Well start with not touching a woman when she’s doing her job.

Nope. If these stories/examples seem like they’re “in a grey area” to you, you’re either a creep, or at best, just part of the problem.

When you want a reservation, do you grab a waiter’s dick? When you want a job, do you caress your prospective boss’s cheek? When you want a date, say to a woman, “Would you like to go out some time? I’d love to get to know you better.” and if she says no walk the fuck away and deal with your feelings yourself. DON’T…

JFC. I am channeling my inner Uma Thurman right now, but I am going to go ahead and presume you are not the goddamn problem you sound like in this post and give you one piece of advice that I hope you will take. I am going to keep it simple so as not to be “perplexing”:

And who cares if some women like it anyway?

What I read in your comments is that sense of entitlement/ privilege that cis hetero men feel they have. That makes me upset but I’m trying not to flame you.

A women out in a social setting probably has different expectations for her interactions with men so flirting may not be unwelcome.

This woman was at work. A women out in a social setting probably has different expectations for her interactions with men so flirting may not be unwelcome.

As a guy, it seems to me like there’s a VAST expanse between “never make an advance” and “grab her body” for alternate methods of signalling attraction.

No, men are not left in a Catch 22. Leave people alone. Men don’t “get” women, that implies ownership and that’s exactly what encourages these types of behaviors. And where are you getting this pseudo-statistic that “a lot of women love that type of attention”? Thats gross and wholly untrue.

Its in a grey area.

As a guy, I just want to say that this is tough. I want to be clear that the guys who did this stuff was wrong, but men are left in a Catch-22. I’m sure I will be eviscerated, but here goes the reasoning.

Please stop. Do not make excuses for this. If you are what you say, you know that these men chose to be this way. People like you are responsible for this not being as stigmatized as it should be.

The thing about the behavior of both of these men, and many others who behave this way is that they were not legitimately looking to initiate the start of a relationship. They were acting out their own desires with every woman they wished without regard to the feelings or desires of the actual women. This isn’t…

you mean, “how do men get such a warped sense of power and entitlement to start a group like this, i’ll never understand” right? surely you don’t mean “man these women are stupid for joining / staying in this group”.

Funny how all these ‘manifesting a new world’ cults always seem to subjugate and abuse women. It’s like men are all ‘how do I get all the sex I want? I know! I’ll start a religion! Make ‘em think they have to!’

Dude, helpful ghosts can be incredibly nice. The ghost in our house was a dick to me throughout my childhood (I posted about it last year, but I would have to dig through last year’s entries to find my story), but after my father died when I was ten and my mother and her new husband got really, really abusive, that…

Right before I turned 21 I moved to a new city, transferred colleges, and got an apartment by myself. I picked a place out on the third story of a rambling old Victorian mansion - a modest studio with white metal cabinets from the 1950's and a rusted fire escape which always gave me bad feelings. It was metal, and…

Let this be the first and only joke of its kind.