It's the whole deception/manipulation thing that's not OK. Not to mention PUAs often think it's OK to insult/neg women to bring down their self-esteem.

Good point, although I do think it depends whom you socialise with? True, decent friends (who are often in shorter supplier than one might like :S) won't require you to change.

0/10. Too obvious. Nothing to see here, guys.

You don't have to be socialising every single evening to do that. Even if you're introverted, surely you could pick a few groups that interest you and socialise maybe 2 or 3 times every week? You don't need to be YOLOing and partying it up every night. Or attending large gatherings/crowds at all? :P

How do you mean by…

The painfully obvious difference being that people are well aware of outsourcing, whereas the whole point of stuff like PUA is that the guys keep it hidden so it's a form of deception or manipulation (every single PUA manual ever tells people to deny deny deny if they're accused of trying to pick a woman up).

Oh, I agree with you there :)

There's a line, though, between ethical pursuing (innocently asking someone else) and trying to manipulate/coerce/"game" someone into sex/a relationship. PUA falls squarely into the latter camp. Their material goes like this:

"Tired of not getting the hot 10/10s you see every day? Here's…

My reaction to both that jacket and that excuse for a human being :P

This. I don't have any problem with people of either gender wanting casual sex. But society already sexually objectifies women so much and a lot (perhaps even the majority) of guys wanting casual sex also seem to adopt this attitude. You can not want anything more than ONSs and still see women as people and respect…

Are you kidding?

Anyone who thinks it's acceptable to dehumanise and objectify women and manipulate/coerce them into sex as though they are nothing more than a mindless robot is terrible.

Thinking something's OK if there's a chance you might "get results" is ludicrous.

OH SNAP

That is indeed terrifying :o Doesn't he keep referring to girls having sex as "giving guys the cookie," too? (Been a while since I read it).

Eugh. I haven't read one "relationship guru" advice book I'd consider good, TBH (even though I went through a phase of devouring them at one point in my teens for some reason).

And what is it with all the people who've failed at their relationships lecturing others on them? Like that Princeton Mom person, to name…

Do you really need that much "chemistry" to get a date? Maybe it's different here because in the UK it's much less distance to travel than in America and so online dating doesn't require a lot of thinking about "are they worth all the travel?", but I've never met anyone who wasn't halfway socially skilled IRL and…

Zero safety net as in job etc.? Well, if you're struggling on your own, why on earth would you want a relationship to complicate matters? Surely you'd try to get your shit together first? If I lost my job, the last thing I'd be thinking about is finding a dude to date, if anything it'd just take up more of my time :O

*claps Joker style* Well said :)

Then again, TBH, it's not surprising that so many young guys struggle with women, given the way our culture/media teaches them to see us and portrays women. If you see a woman as a Sexualised Thing/Object, it's not surprising that you'll struggle to interact with her as a person,…

Yeah. I don't like whole leagues and "rating out of 10" thing either. But, realistically, when someone feels so entitled to someone else who realistically would probably not be attracted to them back, to the point that they think it's OK to try to trick/manipulate them into sex, and whine about "shallow bitches" when…

You don't have to be really literate to impress people and give off a sense of what you're like, though. I'd say anyone with decent social skills would have a rough idea of what to write. UNLESS u r WR1ting lyk this 111, which I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people have the sense not to do.

you are so full of ice cream. ice cream is a feeling.

I may be being a bit blithe here (I'm extremely extroverted so haven't ever struggled socially TBH) but I do think it's possible to improve them, for sure. As with most things in life, if you try hard you can become really good. Not just in spending more time socialising and making sure one has a range of…

I get that some people have trouble socially and unfortunately this does hurt their attempts to find a partner, but I do think the best way for them to deal with it is to take a break from dating for a while and maybe just focus on making friends (including ones who are women - you'd be surprised how many guys I know…