Seriously...if my group takes longer than 45 mins on KF, we are upset with ourselves.

I played one crucible match yesterday for the marks. I got the below. I’m so sorry to all the people I’ll be sniping with it.

Only Daily Crucible bounties will gain progress in private matches. Weekly bounties and quests will not gain progress.

See, here’s the issue. You can’t agree we need more level-headedness and rational thoughts on both sides, as my original comment stated, and then say - “Especially the other side.” You claim that’s the answer for a perfect world, but you want to aim lower? Why?

Sorry, browser freaked out and multi-posted.

Sorry, browser freaked out and multi-posted.

We need more rational, level-headed thoughts like this on both sides of this issue.

I suspect that the ToM nerf is to make that strategy invalid for both PvP (niche, but effective) and more importantly to ensure that the new raid encounters in Wrath of the Machine are not trivialized.

Except one really big one, and that’s gunplay. I think you’re also talking about Vanilla, and maybe even House of Wolves and Dark Below in terms of there being a light story. Taken King really stepped up that department, and it appears as if the new expansion will follow in those footsteps. No more “I haven’t got time…

So by your definition, would you label yourself as a cheater for having exploited enemy AI? To call back to my original argument, the label of cheater is the one I disagree with here. I agree there are a lot of in betweens in terms of being a dick in a game like this - exploiting against other players, altering game…

You danced around it, but never directly answered the question - is it cheating?

It’s about discourse, not gotcha moments. You stated your line in the sand and I wanted to follow to the next logical steps to get a deeper understanding of your thought process on this topic. So let’s imagine you got something by cheesing, that at the time was rare and was overpowered - say the Vex Mythoclast. You…

If you exploit enemy AI (let’s be real, that’s what “cheesing” is), and get gear from it, and then turn around and use that gear on other people, have you crossed your own line?

“Cheesing” enemy AI is exploiting an unintended mechanic in the game too. What if cheesing something leads to gear you use against other players (look at what happened with the first incursion in The Division for example)? Does that cheesing then no longer affect other players? Is it still ok then? The lines here are…

You sir, are indeed an Aimless Zealot.

Just make a real argument with reasoned thoughts. I’ve laid out my said of why I think the label is inaccurate. I challenge you to do the same for your side of things. I suspect you won’t though because saying “just stop” is easier and doesn’t require critical (or any, really) thought on the subject.

Unintended or not, that function is in the game with code provided by Bungie. That’s my point here and the analogy to Thorn is sound on that basis: It’s not an unfair advantage if it’s called unfair because some people choose to use it and some don’t. Just because someone has an advantage does not always mean that…

I’ve reasoned out why I disagree. Care to do the same for your side of the argument? Also - for the record, I haven’t done this, so I’m not trying to clear my own conscience here.

Name checks out.

Here’s my arguement - it’s only truly an unfair advantage if it’s something only I can do because I’ve altered the code somehow. I agree it’s unintended, but it is not exclusive, which is where the line comes in. If your or others morality or whatever is dictating that you don’t want to use it, fine, but that doesn’t…