As boring as PM may have been, Clones may be the absolute nadir of the series, dialogue-wise. It's got the whole sand exchange in it.

"[H]ow many people were there who didn't already like
Star Wars, but would still be into some kind of space-fantasy?" Well, but that's the thing - the current economics of the motion picture business dictate that, however broad the appeal may have been, today it needs to be even bigger. Particularly this film, which…

Yes, but the thing with the new Trek films go even further to the point of alienating some of the old fan base. In fact, at times it feels like there was a conscious effort to piss them off in order to broaden the appeal. Like, one could almost picture there having been some focus group where a bunch of people…

"Leaving aside the bigotry…" Well, that's the problem - unless you share Griffith's racial and historical obsessions, the actual story isn't particularly interesting - some muddle about a northern family who venture down to the Reconstruction-era South and are menaced by all manner of scary black people, then get…

True, though it does sometimes get you Oscar consideration - it remains the only one nominated for Best Picture. Again, not like the winner of that award is always actually the Best Picture from that year.

You beat me on Birth of a Nation by mere seconds.

And I know more than a few people who were really into Star Trek and loved those new films too. But it's impossible to deny the effort to broaden the tent with both series' (specifically after Lucas' approach to the prequels, which was primarily to make films that appealed to himself).

Eh, "A New Hope" (or whatever the official name for it is now) was is an enjoyable pastiche of Joseph Campbell and 1930's B-grade matinee serials. It's also historically significant for the changes it brought to the industry.

Absolutely - I've even described it as the perfect Star Wars movie for people who weren't very into Star Wars in the first place, which is also almost exactly the way people described J.J. Abrams' Star Trek films. Oh, he's more worshipful of the whole "mythology" with this franchise, but it's still pretty much the…

No, they're just pissed because their lawyers haven't figured out how to sue somebody for the fact that they own the rights to Star Trek instead of Star Wars. So they'll vent their frustration by kicking around people who actually like Star Trek. It's a classic abusive relationship, where the abuser is largely…

True, it's their property, but there are equitable arguments of waiver and reliance at play: Paramount and its corporate successors have been fairly permissive of fan-derivative work so long as its *not for profit.* Now, they seem to be changing the standard to, "You can do whatever you want unless we feel that what…

Yep, and then their one girl (who's actually tougher than they are and kind of like their boss) takes off with a random gang happening by from the opposite side of town, who are supposedly on the hit list of every other gang in the city. Somebody ought to have said, "You know, this isn't really working out for you…

Yep. And still drove their gigantic Cadillac's and Oldsmobile's, listened to the easy listening station on AM radio, and still smoked pipes or cigars. I also remember going to the drugstore with my Grandpa and him asking me if I used any hair tonic like Vitalis (his preferred brand), and giving him a puzzled look.

"[Y]ou’d be forgiven for mistaking the early 80's for the late 70's, what with all the luxurious mustaches and bong smoking going on in the trailer." Well, because if you look at pictures of people in the early 80's, in many cases they looked much like they did in the late 70's. That was one of many details that made…

But if that happened then Spock won't live until the 24th century to not save Romulus with the McGuffin juice or whatever that was and, again, none of this will ever have really happened. Which is really all we're asking for at this point.

Part of the reason why the Spock/Kirk thing feels so forced in the newer films is that, while in TOS Kirk was actually somebody with a little wisdom that Spock could respect and learn from, in the new movies he's just a total prick and a clown, and Spock by all rights should outrank him.

Star Trek: Boldly going wherever profitable films have gone before!

"It happened in the classic movies quite frequently!" As in twice. And the ones where it did happen - "The Search for Spock" and "Generations" - were actually pretty mediocre. Because having a big effects sequence where the ship gets blow'd up real good is usually kind of a lazy substitute for a truly interesting…

Maybe if they put an invisible car, or some body armor with visible nipples somewhere in there. Worked to get decent reboots of the Bond and Batman franchises, respectively.

No, but there are many, many more shameful things about these films.