Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think an argument could be made that the Legend of Zelda series has seen more mechanical experimentation and reinvention than the mainline Final Fantasy series.

Yeah, I guess in terms of Pokemon I was comparing the way those games have changed with how the pre-FFXIII games were all more or less within the same space. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

Cool, that’s good to hear. I’m still spending a scary amount with Tears of the Kingdom so I’m not sure when I’ll be moving on from that game but surely at some point I’ll break free of it.

I mean, I heard FFXVI is good, but that’s mostly been from folks who really love Devil May Cry / Bayonetta / whatever. I don’t generally play those games so I’m not exactly running out the door to play it but I’ll give it a shot at some point.

Not really? RE5/6 and FFXVI are both examples of a series pivoting to a new (much more popular) genre in an attempt to increase sales. In both cases it seems like it has worked.

Did I not mention XI and XIV? I’m looking at my comment at the top of the thread and I’m seeing it right there. I said XI, XII, XIV and XV are the main games that I think can be argued are “reinventions” of the series.

Okay, but not really? Like, if you want to compare it to other series it’s certainly not been any more experimental with its mechanics any more than Pokemon or Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil or The Legend of Zelda or even friggin’ Super Mario.

I mean, I read the whole thing, which is probably where you’re struggling.

Again, I’d say that no meaningful contingent of people is arguing for Final Fantasy XVI to play like a retro game nor are they saying a Final Fantasy game needs to be a menu-based RPG. I’m certainly not arguing that.

Okay, but that is not what we’re talking about.

Yeah, I much prefer the trolls arguing that critics are just old geezers who hate real-time gameplay because at least they’re being honest about what they’re trying to say.

No, but I’m also arguing that enthusiasts should be smart enough to recognize when they’re missing the forest for the trees. I am happy to talk about all the mechanical differences between different Final Fantasy games, but I’m also well aware that for the most part they aren’t really meaningful in the grander…

That comparison really only works if we are considering “character action game” as the natural endpoint to “menu-based RPGs”, which despite your assertion I don’t believe is true nor do I think most people would agree with.

Sure, I can’t think of any examples off the top of my head, but I recognize that character action games don’t have to be mutually exclusive from RPGs. We live in a world where it seems like every major game has introduced RPG mechanics in a way to juice engagement numbers so it’s not that surprising.

Yeah, just like how Resident Evil 5 and 6 were the best-selling games in the series for almost a decade.

Yeah I mean I don’t really like character action games. Like, they’re fine, but I rarely go out of my way to play them. It’s so weird that a lot of people seem to be unwilling to accept that fans of one genre are not necessarily a fan of another genre. If the next Legend of Zelda game was a 1-on-1 fighting game I’d…

Is anybody saying they want Final Fantasy to be stagnant? People seem to be criticizing the specific changes, not the idea of it changing in general.

It is kinda shocking how little confidence Square Enix seems to have in Final Fantasy being its own thing.

I am way less annoyed by FFXVI becoming an action game than I am about so many people asserting that Final Fantasy games have always been about reinvention. Maybe that’s true in terms of setting & narrative (and I would argue you’d have to really stretch the idea of what narrative “reinvention” means in an anthology…

I mean, it was a cheap cashgrab kids movie so celebrity stuntcasting where the actor puts in no effort and basically does what he’s always done in every other cheap cashgrab kids movie was exactly the right fit.