@tiredfairy: Look, I don't really have the time or energy to engage in this discussion any further. This thread has gone on too long already. I appreciate your point of view, your civility, and your attempt to be thorough but, as I noted before in my previous comment, this is not a scholarly article on race in…

@tiredfairy: Well, I'll give you Tolkien on orcs, from one of his letters:

@Coffee Talks is gonna need y'all to bring Miz Jenkins back: I completely agree with you, and want to raise another point.

@Coffee Talks is gonna need y'all to bring Miz Jenkins back: Interesting post!

@tiredfairy: One bit of clarification. You seem to think that I am saying - even in my second post - that orcs are POC ... that there is an identity between orcs and POC. Rather, orcs and other dark, evil beings in Tolkien share negative stereotypical racist characteristics with POC. And yes, that associating (not…

I recognize this argument! It's one fantasy fans of color have been having for ages. I feel like there's a special LOTR-edition privilege bingo card out there, and if there isn't, there should be. I'm also just going to go ahead and say that I may be a little snappy in here and may bow out after a comment or two. If…

@fifilaru: Sorry, didn't edit in time so I have to post another comment. But in answer to the second bit of your question about whether white actors should be entitled to play characters of colour... At this point in time? No. Because it's not like actors of colour are getting equal opportunity rights to play…

@tiredfairy: Look, first, the comment about POC being represented by orcs was flippant - on purpose. But, it isn't like the world Tolkien created is less racist if we turn our attention on the bad swarthy humans. And, really, this is not "racially problematic" - it's racist:

@Kaiser-Machead v.2.4: Yeeees, and making them all white is institutionalized racism at its finest. White is not default! Nor is there any reason to think they would look identical to one another (they're played by humans, none of whom look identical to one another in features or coloring) and not have any variety…

@eruantaliel: I guess we're saying the same thing in different ways.

@Kaiser-Machead v.2.4: Where does this idea that there were never any brown people in Europe prior to (...what? 1940? 1970?) even come from? There were.

@Liz the Whiz: Last time I checked, there are/were/have been English POC for quite some time.

@nerdycellist: Good point on the women thing too - Tolkien definitely excluded most women from his awesome characters list (probably why everyone likes Eowyn so much - she's a rare example of a female character). I think with LOTR there are so many intense purists it's always a little tricky, because no matter what…

Seriously, dark-skinned people should just stop complaining because they are represented in the movie.

@Dorisaurus: Why is it such a big deal to include a dark skinned person that will take a millisecond of on screen time and may even be cut out of the movie in the end?

@Dorisaurus: The specific physical characteristic of hobbits <that is important to the story is size, not skin color.

@LibraryChick: Well, just because Tolkien may or may not have had issues with race, that doesn't mean that a current film depiction of the story HASt o adhere to every single detail, especially since I don't know that the Hobbits were specifically described anywhere as having a specific colour. Even if they were, it's…

@eruantaliel: I didn't know that about Tolkein's background— that explains a lot of his racial issues. I was going to add that England from the 1920s-1960s saw a large increase in non-white immigration (started small, but spiked in the 1950s and 60s) and there was an awful lot of racial tension brewing (including…

Dammit, I put this downthread is response a while back but I feel like it needs to be seperate.

@SkaHimself: Well, let's be all like "OMG, so this is a world with magical creatures of all sorts but it's too much of a stretch to imagine a Pakistani hobbit."