@avclub-595675a771ced4a4e62f56480fc9f893:disqus "Voyager signally failed to explore the boundaries an limits of the
federation utopia under the most extreme of circumstances, and that's
why it's almost totally uninteresting."

@avclub-23dc117ef9479407fb6c6a666005af40:disqus I was with you up until you started criticising Janeway for following her principles. That is when you tipped from realism into cynicism. Realism is when you accept that people don't always do the right thing. Cynicism is when you criticise people who do the right thing,…

@avclub-23dc117ef9479407fb6c6a666005af40:disqus I was with you up until you started criticising Janeway for following her principles. That is when you tipped from realism into cynicism. Realism is when you accept that people don't always do the right thing. Cynicism is when you criticise people who do the right thing,…

@avclub-92a4841c9f86965effbc29fa6eae9f77:disqus If you don't allow yourself to be blinded by hate or annoyance there is a lot of depth in the Voyager characters. I'd say more than DS9 but I there are still a lot of later DS9 episodes I haven't seen and if it's anything like Voyager, most of the juicy character moments…

@avclub-92a4841c9f86965effbc29fa6eae9f77:disqus If you don't allow yourself to be blinded by hate or annoyance there is a lot of depth in the Voyager characters. I'd say more than DS9 but I there are still a lot of later DS9 episodes I haven't seen and if it's anything like Voyager, most of the juicy character moments…

@avclub-92a4841c9f86965effbc29fa6eae9f77:disqus "While I'm not sure I agree with most of your claims, esp. your slams on Kira and Dax, I definitely disagree with you when it comes to the character of Janeway, who seemed like she had to "compensate" for being a woman in command by distancing herself from her crew, and…

@avclub-92a4841c9f86965effbc29fa6eae9f77:disqus "While I'm not sure I agree with most of your claims, esp. your slams on Kira and Dax, I definitely disagree with you when it comes to the character of Janeway, who seemed like she had to "compensate" for being a woman in command by distancing herself from her crew, and…

@avclub-469855b15af87afcbf7d29ea09e321ed:disqus I probably don't like the speech as much as you do but I get where you are coming from. It's a little bit unsubtle, is my main problem with it. If the events of the episode had truly made the point the writers intended them to make, that speech should not have been…

@avclub-469855b15af87afcbf7d29ea09e321ed:disqus I probably don't like the speech as much as you do but I get where you are coming from. It's a little bit unsubtle, is my main problem with it. If the events of the episode had truly made the point the writers intended them to make, that speech should not have been…

I don't love Ron Moore for the Klingons. In TNG, sure, but not in DS9; I feel Worf gets kind of ruined in DS9 and Moore's name is all over it.

I don't love Ron Moore for the Klingons. In TNG, sure, but not in DS9; I feel Worf gets kind of ruined in DS9 and Moore's name is all over it.

The problem with 'Hard Time' is it isn't really a science fiction story. It's well done I am just less interested. Not that I don't enjoy weighty non-sci-fi drama, but I can get way better examples of it outside of Trek, so I prefer Trek to always have a good sci-fi element to chew on. Call it market differentiation.…

The problem with 'Hard Time' is it isn't really a science fiction story. It's well done I am just less interested. Not that I don't enjoy weighty non-sci-fi drama, but I can get way better examples of it outside of Trek, so I prefer Trek to always have a good sci-fi element to chew on. Call it market differentiation.…

I don't believe the DS9 writers were 'saddled' with anything, regarding the Ferengi. They had no qualms whatsoever about completely retconning the Trill in contradictory ways. If they had wanted to, they could have done the same with the Ferengi. Clearly they didn't want to: they told the Ferengi stories they wanted…

I don't believe the DS9 writers were 'saddled' with anything, regarding the Ferengi. They had no qualms whatsoever about completely retconning the Trill in contradictory ways. If they had wanted to, they could have done the same with the Ferengi. Clearly they didn't want to: they told the Ferengi stories they wanted…

I basically agree with you but I get over Sisko's speeches by just reminding myself not to read everything DS9 fans say about DS9 being a critique of Roddenberry into it. I just interpret Sisko's speeches as frustration talking and they play better for me. If I try to interpret them the way many DS9 fans do I begin to…

I basically agree with you but I get over Sisko's speeches by just reminding myself not to read everything DS9 fans say about DS9 being a critique of Roddenberry into it. I just interpret Sisko's speeches as frustration talking and they play better for me. If I try to interpret them the way many DS9 fans do I begin to…

The 'saints in paradise' speech is great except when interpreted as a critique of Roddenberry, because taken in that way it completely misunderstands what Roddenberry was trying to achieve. His message and his stories were aspirational. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point at aspirational fables and say, 'They…

I agree. I've been rewatching DS9 with a very skeptical eye, and nothing has really been doing it for me. There were shows that I liked, strengths and weaknesses, etc. But no love. 'The Quickening' is the first episode that actually grabbed me by the shoulders and said, 'Something important is happening here and you…

I agree. I've been rewatching DS9 with a very skeptical eye, and nothing has really been doing it for me. There were shows that I liked, strengths and weaknesses, etc. But no love. 'The Quickening' is the first episode that actually grabbed me by the shoulders and said, 'Something important is happening here and you…