Thanks for actually answering my question. So essentially the invoice price is what the dealership has to pay to the bank for the car once they sell it, and the rebates and hold back are what the dealer gets from the manufacturer once they sell it.

Too much in the sense that they got ripped off by a dealer? Yes.

Total bullshit, Mr. Obvious Dealer Dude. A franchised dealer operation in the US could sell each and every unit at a loss and still make money. You’re omitting the fact that a dealer has used car, finance, parts, service, and (if they’re smart) body shop operations. Each of these departments return markedly higher…

Every dollar above break-even is “extra negotiating money” buddy. Sorry to shatter your fragile snowflake world but that’s now negotiable transactions work. The dealer’s job is to make as much money on each car as possible without unduly hurting their volume. The customer’s job is to spend as little money as…

Tom...you are severely misinformed about holdback. It’s not extra negotiating money as you claim. It’s profit for the dealer to keep the lights on after some douche chisels the hell out of the dealership. I don’t understand why people want to buy a product and expect the seller not to make a profit. Do you work for…

I mean, did you see that Land Cruiser?! For that price, all you get is an OK-condition Wrangler TJ with a 4.0-liter. The LC is more vehicle for the buck.

The XJ would have been a good choice, but I’d rather keep all those for myself.

Wait, did David Tracey just recommend not a jeep?

Price is obviously crack-pipe. While the styling was greatly improved for this generation, these were still crummy cars from Hyundai’s dark days. A clean RSX of this age might be worth $7,000. This is worth half that.

As long as you feel the same way about the Focus RS, Golf R and WRX STI, I accept your statement.

Why buy any car when an S65AMG will eventually, someday, be the same price?

The same can be said about every single one of its competitors.

Not to mention you are within spitting distance of a focus RS, golf R, and STi territory

Yeah, but the previous owner of that BMW probably farted a lot in the car before you bought it. Do you want a car that has been pre-farted in?

i need to find that interview with the designer of the toyobaru. he explicitly says it will never ever have a turbo, but people keep acting like it will.

They’re also very affordable. Might be the absolute best value for a beginner trackday driver.

Please let this have a turbo. And it’s not because I’m really interested in buying one, it’s just that I really don’t want to hear “if it only had a turbo, I would totally buy one” time and time again.

The rotary oil consumption charge is just a version of engine discrimination. My RX-8 consumed a quart of oil every 3,000 miles. My Subaru has, since new, burned a quart of oil every 3,000 miles. My friend’s S2000 burns a quart of oil every 3,000 miles. Yet, guess which car has people constantly moaning about oil…

It takes a special type of person to love the rotary engine, but I’m definitely one of them. I still miss my RX-8 to this day, and the 13B is the only engine from a previously owned car that I miss. Compared to a normal piston engine, the rotary is just so smooth. I should pick up a S2 RX-8...

Agreed. We need more rotary engined cars. I suggest Mazda should pull the trigger on this concept. Anyone else second that emotion?