The law is not the final arbiter of morals. Hitting a child with a belt is abuse no matter what the law says.

I disagree with you that it’s not helpful to say so. As I explained multiple times in this overall discussion, calling abuse what it is prevents lax attitudes that excuse abuse and look the other way, allowing…

No one forces you to read to respond to anything.

This is a public forum, not your personal space and if I think something is important (other people DO read this) I am going to say it.

Because ideally when we know better we do better.

No, I’m not going to stop advocating for what I think is right.

So you can fuck right off.

You are focused on people after abuse (even though they say they have not been abused...)

I’m focused on those that have not yet been abused and trying to stop that before it happens, by changing attitudes like yours that make excuses for abusive behavior.

Saying that abuse is abuse is not ignoring her it is DISAGREEING with her on what abuse is.

Yes, I am labeling abuse as abuse. Like I keep saying, it is important to do so. Not for my ego, but to stop the perpetration of abuse and the attitudes that excuse it.

her parents are abusers, no, her situation was abuse! no, hitting a child with a belt is abusive)

It’s not relevant to whether or not it was abuse, but good job deliberately taking what I said out of context. (Or having poor reading comprehension, your choice.)

The point is that her feelings to not determine if an act is abuse or not. Hitting a child with a belt is always abuse.

So what exactly, other than the fact that I don’t agree with you, do you think shows I’m not listening?

When we say abuse is not abuse, we make it easier for people to abuse others and for society to look the other way. That’s not about me.

I’m not telling hr how to feel and I’ve said time and again it’s irrelevant. I don’t care how he feels about it. The fact is ANYTIME SOMEONE HITS A CHILD WITH A BELT, THAT IS ABUSE.

You, like most people, confuse listening with agreement. You think because I don’t agree with you and see things your way, that I’m not listening. I am listening, I just don’t agree. There really is a difference. I can listen and hear, and still not see things your way.

And no, I’m not an ally. Way to much…

the fuck?? IT’S HER STORY. You don’t get to determine what are “facts” and what are not. YOU WEREN’T THERE.

I’m asking you to STOP NEGATING OTHERS’ EXPERIENCES because it’s WRONG.

“That doesn’t include negating others’ experiences!! “

You are doing that in spades, right now, in this thread,

I’m saying these things because attitudes that excuse abuse are harmful and only help abuses continue.

I don’t think there is anything wrong about wanting to stop the continuation of harmful attitudes towards abuse.

What I want is to stop the perpetration of harmful attitudes towards abuse that allow it to continue.

And I have never tried to tell anyone what to feel about anything. I am saying that when someone hits a child with a belt that is abuse, no exceptions. That is an important fact and when people refuse to acknowledge…

No, I’m not going to stop caring about things that are important.

She is free to feel however she wants about about it. She is not free to make up facts.

Anything that says hitting a child with a belt is not abuse is perpetrating harmful attitudes towards abuse. I’m not ok with that.