Thanks.  I admit I only know the hits from that time.

if you want to get symbolic, i suppose you could argue that the film version was a sort of “examination” of the character of judd from “oklahoma.”  maybe that’s what kaufman is alluding to.  it certainly isn’t in the book at all.

I watched that under the assumption that the whole thing was just a meta analysis of what it’s like trying to adapt a book.

There have always been men (and women — the old trope of the “spinster” or “maiden aunt” ) who never formed romantic relationships. Obviously for a variety of reasons, closeted homosexuality being the obvious one, but just plain shyness too. That’s different than the modern idea of an “incel” who is angry about the…

In the lead-up to the attempt I spent a freezing night in my car in the middle of nowhere; had imaginary conversations with people about how my life was just an amalgamation of the thoughts and opinions of different people and that I had no individuality of my own; considered that I literally was different people and…

That’s a fascinating take, and I’d love to hear more about that if you’re comfortable sharing.  (I’m a mental health provider and I’m always interested in hearing peoples’ first-hand accounts of those types of symptoms.)

Her turning into Pauline Kael at least fits with all the other transformations in the film.

Surprised how many people here are trying to dig into the narrative of the movie. The whole film read to me like Charlie Kaufman using a thing plot as a metaphor, a process for bouncing ideas back and forth, sometimes following strange and personal tangents like critical film theory before drifting back to the main…

Yeah, I don’t think he’s meant to be writing the story, but rather that the story is what’s going on in his head as he cleans up the high school one last time, contemplates suicide, and thinks about his parents and things he’s read about and a girl he almost talked to once and what she might be like and so forth.

Even if you have never seen Oklahoma! there is a scene earlier in the movie where the janitor watches two students in their costumes from the musical essentially practicing the same dance (or a very similar one) in the hallway.

apparently in the book the female character is very unintelligent and needs everything explained to her, so at least Kaufman flipped the “incel” idea on its head.

I did feel a little bad for janitors haha but I think the profession was chosen because of how it keeps him on the periphery rather than because it’s seen as a failure: he’s back in the high school he graduated from, watching class after class of youngsters go off to pursue their dreams, never interacting with them,…

Disagree that the janitor/Jesse Plemons’ character is an “incel” so much as just as a lonely old man.

Surely he wasn’t meant to be *writing* the film we were seeing?  I thought it was just him trying to sort out a fantasy girlfriend and family visit in his head or something but...  Well now I’m not sure.  But we never saw him writing...

Oh fuck, this! And I loved the film but too many sound edits and visuals made me think of Lynch. Yet, I horribly miss Robert Altman and know Lynch is getting up their in age and I know it’s bad but was hoping Paul Thomas Anderson would morph into the Altman and in a way, I wouldn’t hate if Charlie decides to be the…

Way to utterly miss the point of the movie. You woudn’t be a shallow snarky asshole on AVCLUB shithole of a comment section otherwise though I guess.

As someone who has lived through a psychotic break and suicide attempt I can confirm that this film is perfect

I much preferred the film to the book. Even though the film is overlong and did start to test my patience once it got to the high school, I think it makes what are mildly weird/creepy details from the book something far more unsettling and almost unbearably uncomfortable. I can’t think of the last film that felt so…

To dismiss such a character as an ‘incel’ because of modern culture war bollix is so reductive. He’s a sad, socially awkward lonely man who has never been able to form meaningful relationships. More of a tragic figure. He’s had never harmed anyone, seemed relatively caring to his ageing parents and who uses his…

I had the exact same feeling about the twist in the book that Dowd did, and I found the ending to this film to be much more affecting, essentially because Kaufman has so much more empathy for the janitor. The novel turns the janitor into a slasher film villain, when his story of isolation and loneliness is much sadder…