Because I see it every fucking day in feminist groups online and in the real world? The relevance to this story is that the individuals in the story were SHOCKED that a male *FEMINIST* would not practice what he preached - but this happens every day. There are loads of men that say "but I aaaaaaaaaaam a feminist!" and…

Ehh, I guess most academic radfems, but the trans exclusionary nature puts me off. I think it is mostly a 3rd wave thing - there didn't seem to be this problem with second wave, but obviously I still identify closer to third wave.

You're deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not calling for radicalism. I'm not calling for activism, though I would certainly like to see more of it. I'm calling for people to be accountable to the identities they hold - to recognize that feminism as an identity is actually quite a serious thing. So…

You're deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not calling for radicalism. I'm not calling for activism, though I would certainly like to see more of it. I'm calling for people to be accountable to the identities they hold - to recognize that feminism as an identity is actually quite a serious thing. So…

This so much.

omg you're totally, like, marriage material <3 <3 <3 ;)

Yep, and changing minds is great, but not if you have to dilute what the cause actually is. If feminism is too scary for some men then it's on them to grow up and change - I'm not going to waste time gift wrapping it.

All the examples you gave combined intelligent discourse with direct action - hell, the ANC weren't exactly down with peaceful protest, were they? I'd like to add the Suffragettes who actually firebombed shops.

Nope. Read my comment again.

That's not really what I was saying, though I can see how it would be interpreted that way.

I'm not saying be mean to men all the time. I'm not even saying treat them with suspicion. I'm saying stop applauding them as complete heros just for saying stuff if they're not actually doing stuff.

My point is not that we have our own little exclusive club and not let anyone in. My point is that we shouldn't have to change or soften feminist discourse for the sake of appearing more approachable to the general public, in particular men. So much of popular discussion around feminism at the moment is feminists…

Ah-ha, sorry, I just had my hackles up over something else.

Oh certainly, but I don't get the weird western third wave emphasis on it. With things like He For She it feels like the only way we can legitimise feminism is by constantly reassuring men that they're needed and we'll love them if they just identify as a feminist.

I think that's slightly different; I quite clearly said 'popular feminism', and accusations that feminism has a marketing problem are usually towards Western feminism. And even then, in somewhere like Saudi Arabia women haven't earned the right to vote and drive by asking nicely. The women their have fought very hard…

Like I said, I do like my steak rare - just like there are people that geniunely love spicy food. But it seems like every man wants to be a caveman when it comes to steak. There should be no shame in having it how you like. Unless it's well done, in which case you should be shamed.

I'm sorry, but that opportunistic twatwaffle was able to get away with that shit for so long because we're so obsessed with men accepting feminism, and we practically suck the dick of any man who acts like a decent human being. We shouldn't have to dilute the meaning of feminism to gain popularity, we should be…

See also - rareness of steak. I love my steak rare, but it's truly remarkable how often I've seen men insist that their steak should be practically mooing before making a huge, painfully fake show of how much they love it.

UGH. I empathize with this so much.

This is why I don't give a shit about attracting men to feminism. I don't give a flying toss if feminism has a marketing problem. I don't care that you don't feel 'welcomed into the community'. For too long popular feminism has been more concerned with it's image and "collecting members" than real action.