I’m not sure it defied expectations as much as coped out of telling a story that it didn’t like, but had agreed to continue. The truth is, there is nothing regulatory in Rey not being a Skywalker (I’m assuming this is the point of departure that you’re alluding to, as others have cited it before), because we already…

Yes, but it shouldn’t be that uncommon for them to have siblings or family members. Just because the Jedi aren’t supposed to have kids doesn’t mean they don’t have close relatives who may have the same genetics and possibly similar aptitude with the Force.

I don’t think you’re contradicting yourself. Whether her background’s a mystery or not, the reveal should be the reveal. No double fake outs, just let the power of the story be enough. But how they handled it sure sounds like storytelling by way of Chinese whispers where they were not told what story they should end…

...or they didn’t have Rey’s backstory nailed down, in which case what the fuck?

Similarly I’m thinking that Kylo might’ve seen an incomplete vision of who Rey’s parents were that made it seem like they were nobodies. So in that respect he might not knowingly lied. At the same time I think he added some embellishment when he said they were drunk losers who sold her for drinking money and he lied…

The dark side is not balance it’s the absence of balance.

TLJ SUCKED.

There’s never been any indication that you had to be a chosen one to be a strong force user in the movies, let alone the extended media where there are 9000 examples of strong force users.

Somebody needs to go spend some time on tvtropes (Rian). Subversion of tropes is in itself, a trope.

To fuck with Luke? I dunno, it broke the force rules and looked cool so it’s subversive I guess

The Last Jedi was better than The Force Awakens, but my problem with the whole thing is the hopelessness of the whole endeavor. [snip] The whole notion that our heroes’ victory at the end of the original trilogy was anything but, and that they’ve all spent their entire lives fighting that same war, and now we get to…

this is exactly what’s wrong with TLJ and also KOTOR 2, it’s creators incapable of imagining purely good and enlightened characters.

I just wish they didn’t have Kylo stick with the First Order, I get not just redeeming him, but have him go a third way and be a wild card in the war(which I think might happen in RoS).

It drives me up a wall when people talk about how TLJ introduced the idea that the hero with Fore powers doesn’t have to be from a special family.

Is it really a retcon though? The bad guy lied to the hero about her parents to break her down and offer himself up as the only person that would accept her. It’s only a retcon if Kylo told the truth.

I liked TLJ because Luke said what anyone that watched the prequels thought: the Jedi Order was a complete failure and we shouldn’t try to just make another one. It was a cool subversion from the original idea that got smashed to pieces in the prequels when they were played for fools by Palpatine.

Except Luke isn’t set up to be special because he’s a Skywalker. He’s set up to be special because he’s literally all the Jedi have left (well, when the films were being made, anyway).

I want someone to flip the whole table and say “Fuck it, literally none of anything matters anymore because you’re in a different galaxy and there’s a whole new threat, and also it’s a psychological thriller now.”

The Sacred Jedi texts were already aboard the Falcon when Yoda set that temple on fire...

Except that there have been countless tales in the EU (whether in the novels or in the video games) that have shown nobodies can be Jedi.