I've never heard of the second one, can you link me to somewhere that defines it in that way?

" the show also has to let you feel welcome into that world." Yeh I have to completely dispute that, some of the very best HBO ever, Deadwood and The Wire, expected you to do a good chunk of work to get into their worlds. Of course The Leftovers isn't anywhere near as well written but the idea that shows have to make…

AVC has been heading down this road for a while now unfortunately. Click and comment bait all over the place and a few gems getting overlooked for being well reasoned, balanced and unlikely to generate rage or resentment.

Well that's a not entirely true, a critic shouldn't dismiss a piece of work because it's "not for them" even if they spent a lot of time coming to that conclusion. It reminds me of Mike D'Angelo's comments that he has a fundamental problem with films that deal with "identity".

Fair enough that it's obvious, for me it's the way the film makes you experience that obvious commentary's point rather than just intellectualise and brush it off. Which hey I know you were able to but for those it does affect it's very powerful.

I mean I agree it's a film that invites you to think and talk about it, I think it's deeper than you say because of it's specific cult and their motivations, it's not arbitrary Laugier chose that reasoning and the ending reflects that, because it leaves the audience hollowed out, the fact is the torture the sheer…

A) I was mainly making a shity Jurassic Park joke/reference, sorry if it came off as dickish.
B)This is a message board. People are allowed to sprinkle their comments where they please. Sorry if you dislike these movies.
;)

it provokes hugely strong reactions and resonance for lots of people as I think a few comments here demonstrate.

So if the movie has made it's intention "pretty clear" to you and that is commenting on polarised and violent ideology that masks desire to torture with the purest and highest intentions, aside from taking issue with that that criticism; how, in your view, has it failed to have any value?

It doesn't disguise anything. The motivations are made plain.

And he's still dumb as ever. Aw.

I'm agreeing with you, sorry didn't make it clear.

Masterful. Thank you.

You're so wrapped up in whether you can you haven't stopped to answer why you should.

Exactly, the Exorcist is a terrible comparison because it's not a POV movie. HT is entirely a POV movie.

Just tbecause you expect it and don't get it, that doesn't automatically make it a bad movie. I mean I'm not even that fond of HT but the twist is fine.

No, the emptiness of the group is what gives the film value. They truly believe they are right, that they are justified, that their ideology trumps everything else. When it's discovered that yes their is an afterlife and because you tortured countless women you aren't going to it, that's why the leader kills herself.…

The revelation is that there is an afterlife and the group aren't going to the good side of it because they are sick torturers. The woman kills herself because she knows she's wasted her life and there is only hell, in this world or the other, left for her.

Most stories are, sorry to burst your oddly naive and impressively preserved bubble.

Martyrs could well be the finest film of the last decade.