@avclub-1881baeccb7399f3452cd7f37cdb2b29:disqus Oh, film is a whole separate discussion, and I definitely think that women are better represented by television than by movies as a whole. It's why backlash like this is still generating discussion, while backlash to, say, Tiny Furniture pretty much moved on. Plus the…

He's not saying that they're necessarily super-manly or anything, but that the criteria for creating good television seems to have hardened into shows that endorse a primarily masculine viewpoint.

He's not saying that they're necessarily super-manly or anything, but that the criteria for creating good television seems to have hardened into shows that endorse a primarily masculine viewpoint.

I really, really feel like the show wouldn't have as much backlash if it was marketed as a character show rather than a comedy. Of course, it probably wouldn't have as many viewers, either…

I really, really feel like the show wouldn't have as much backlash if it was marketed as a character show rather than a comedy. Of course, it probably wouldn't have as many viewers, either…

I definitely feel that at this point, the women (and Winston) are taking a backseat to Schmidt and Nick. I kind of wonder if it's about performance - Zooey, to me, presents a fairly limited range, and Cece is easily the least fun/absurd of the characters. The men, on the other hand, have grown into their absurdities.

I definitely feel that at this point, the women (and Winston) are taking a backseat to Schmidt and Nick. I kind of wonder if it's about performance - Zooey, to me, presents a fairly limited range, and Cece is easily the least fun/absurd of the characters. The men, on the other hand, have grown into their absurdities.

It's not fully looks-based, but there's definitely a contingent of comment-types that like to make every issue with the show an attack on Cummings as a person, and that includes looks.

It's not fully looks-based, but there's definitely a contingent of comment-types that like to make every issue with the show an attack on Cummings as a person, and that includes looks.

@avclub-9e701dfc2f4952d495077c6bf6c3c94a:disqus Really? Ugh. Plus it's paired with New Girl, which is also a backlashy show. I really hope we look back on this stuff in five years and shake our heads at the ridiculousness of the complaints.

@avclub-9e701dfc2f4952d495077c6bf6c3c94a:disqus Really? Ugh. Plus it's paired with New Girl, which is also a backlashy show. I really hope we look back on this stuff in five years and shake our heads at the ridiculousness of the complaints.

@avclub-1881baeccb7399f3452cd7f37cdb2b29:disqus Exactly! Which leads to an interesting question; is it better/more feminist to try and represent the struggle of women in a male dominated world, or better to have a show dominated by the feminine viewpoint? Obviously, we should be grateful that both exist (and none of…

@avclub-1881baeccb7399f3452cd7f37cdb2b29:disqus Exactly! Which leads to an interesting question; is it better/more feminist to try and represent the struggle of women in a male dominated world, or better to have a show dominated by the feminine viewpoint? Obviously, we should be grateful that both exist (and none of…

Well, I'd say part of that is the difference between film criticism and television criticism; film is a one-and-done thing, while television shows up every week to spark discussion. I wasn't as active online in 2012 as I am now, but I don't think that Tiny Furniture had this sort of discussion. Positive or negative.

Well, I'd say part of that is the difference between film criticism and television criticism; film is a one-and-done thing, while television shows up every week to spark discussion. I wasn't as active online in 2012 as I am now, but I don't think that Tiny Furniture had this sort of discussion. Positive or negative.

No one cares if people don't watch the show, though. It's the freakishly elongated backlash that is making people wonder what's different.

No one cares if people don't watch the show, though. It's the freakishly elongated backlash that is making people wonder what's different.

I agree, but I don't think that a backlash is needed. I've just accepted that the show is pretty clearly not for me, but there's enough quality to it that I can respect its fans. The problem is the binary decision-making process of the Internet. Everything is either the best or the worst, with no in-between.

I agree, but I don't think that a backlash is needed. I've just accepted that the show is pretty clearly not for me, but there's enough quality to it that I can respect its fans. The problem is the binary decision-making process of the Internet. Everything is either the best or the worst, with no in-between.

@avclub-eac75edc18b8546c46893fe4b75ab995:disqus I'd argue that Parks and 30 Rock (both of which I love) are still presenting a different viewpoint that Girls. There's a lot of stuff in both shows that keeps the viewpoint fairly masculine, particularly the canonization of Ron and Jack as the greatest character on…