Absolutely. There's lots of things somebody could do to persuade someone to hold a certain belief. As Paige's mother I think Elizabeth spent her whole life trying to influence her beliefs. She's only now been able to be more honest about it, since when Paige was growing up she couldn't even let on that she herself…

I know! I've heard people be equally horrified no matter what country someone suggests moving the kids to. They'll be scarred for life whether they move to Moscow or Paris.

Oh, I'm not saying that Tim and the KGB are similar at all. I'm saying that Philip, Elizabeth and Tim have very similar ideas about how the world should be (everyone having their basic needs met, people sharing with others, the weak protected against the strong). They've all three of them acknowledged them to each…

But that's what they say they do so why wouldn't it be? They write "I don't know" and the Russian translator thinks that Oleg would express that thought in a certain way, maybe with more specific references or whatever. I'd have to see the side by side. It's not like they're writing new dialogue with new ideas.…

But I don't think Elizabeth is really quite lying about all these things. Elizabeth *hopes* that Paige would want to join her in the fight, but she's not tricking her into it. I think central to getting Elizabeth's perspective is that she thinks it's her duty as a mother to make her daughter into a strong person who…

". And they are constantly running into the choice between doing their duty as humans and as parents, and the horrible things they have done and must do in their day jobs."

Yeah, I think even the actors said back at the start of S4 that that wasn't a thing for them. Once they told her and she reacted it was just about parenting. It's not like when they thought about leaving Elizabeth worried about Paige being a spy. She wants her to believe in the Cause,but she doesn't have to be a spy.

I think that is what they're doing.

I think because they're not translating them at all. They write the scenes in English, since they don't speak Russian. They they let the translators write their own scene in a way that sounds like the Russian-speaking characters would actually say them. TV captions are actually writing what they hear. So it's more…

I think Philip ultimately thought that too. As Elizabeth said "He can be both!" But yeah, that makes him more toxic. And leads to things like Gabriel hoping to feel better after talking to Martha in Russia.

and that's manipulation to you whereas it seems part of religion to me, and you seem to have an issue with religion.

And presumably he would have a lot of friends in Moscow who'd be calling him to go out, wouldn't he? It seems like he would.

What's makes it seem that this is about me having an issue with religion? That I said the person who's a professional pastor actually has a goal of bringing people to God? I honestly didn't write any of that feeling any particular anger at religion. I think the show intentionally set up parallels and it's one those…

Well I started from my view that he didn't have an intention to manipulate her in the negative sense, not to exploit her or to take advantage of her or to ignore her own desires or best interest.

I don't think she was one of the women Oleg was investigating.

I don't know how old the actor is, but he seems to have been a student at UCLA at some point in the past.

Totally agree. But I think there's a difference between acknowledging that fact and taking it into account and saying that any choice a teenager makes that we don't like is the fault of adults around them who didn't do something that would make them make a different choice.

I think it's obviously there as a possibility but I don't think they're suggesting that Henry=Pasha without a doubt. You can't imagine the scenario without knowing that this is a possibility, after all. Paige could just as easily be the Pasha. I would guess they would agree with Pastor Tim that you simply can't know…

Agreed—and I think that's more where she is now. She's not looking up at her parents starry-eyed the way she did to Pastor Tim. She's not being as challenging as she could be, but she seems to be questioning in her own way. I think she is seeing them as more grey than black or white.

It seems like you're just starting with the idea that what Pastor Tim is doing is not manipulation and then defining the word around that. I see plenty of evidence that Philip and Elizabeth respect Paige's autonomy. Especially Philip, who has stood up for it and openly encouraged her with it on more than one occasion…