Yeah, but they’re your cells, with your DNA. A fertilized egg has two half-sets of other people’s DNA, which combine to make a new organism. When that organism gets the rights of a human in the eyes of our laws is the unanswered question, for me.

Let me say first that I don’t know that I do believe life begins at conception, much less that legally-protected life begins at conception - ‘cause they ain’t necessarily the same thing. But yes, it seems to me that, if life begins at conception, IUDs would be a problem, ethically.

An interesting view! I agree that we have a long way to go before we have a unified morality that treats not-born-humans, born-humans, and dead-humans in a logically consistent way.

Does it make a difference if the life-sucker had no choice in the matter, and the life-suckee did?

That’s a wonderful analogy. I mean, imperfect, sure - all analogies are by definition - but a tidy one, nevertheless.

I think your position is absolutely reasonable. I think the comparison of pregnancy to cancer is problematic since they’re fundamentally different biological processes, but I understand the metaphor you’re using, and as long as it’s not taken too far, its reasoning holds.

I definitely see that hypocrisy! Please understand, I am actually and genuinely undecided on this issue, and if it sounds like I’m one of the people you’re talking about, please know that I’m not. That kind of hypocrisy is exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid in myself, and why I think it’s important to judge…

To be fair, I don’t think everyone - or even most people - fucking get that the vehemence of their opposition is born of ignorance. I think it’s absolutely great that you understand that, but I’ve been on the internet once or twice, and I’m not sure yours is the majority position.

I very much am. I understand I was putting forth a given view, but that doesn’t mean I necessarily hold that view with certainty.

Right, but, again, if you believe human life begins at conception, and if you believe that the government has the duty to protect all human life - those are the parts I’m not certain of! - then it’s not an issue of comprehensive medical care of the mother, but the fundamental rights of the unborn child. If you don’t…

That’s as may be, but that wouldn’t make it right! That could just be an injustice on another injustice. If abortion is wrong, it should be wrong no matter the gender of the gestator or foetus - which I’m reasonably certain you agree with, I just wanted to make sure you knew I likewise agreed.

All laws push the beliefs of one group onto another group; all laws are the government minding our business.

I never reply to anything about abortion because I’m personally undecided and don’t love taking flak from people on either side, but I would point out that those who oppose abortion might note that the individual left out of your comment is the foetus. If you believe human life begins at or around conception, this…

I never tire of pointing out to people that at about 3,400 pounds as it sits, my 20-year-old chunky square steel box of a Jeep Cherokee weighs in 200 pounds less than a Porsche 918 Spyder.

You’re probably trolling, but just in case you’re not: hey, man, we do it, too. Extreme liberal, extreme conservative, moderate in either direction, whatever: this is how you get people do to things you want them to do. Whether that’s a scam, or a completely legitimate cause, the things you want to do are get people…

If they could take all the fiddly modern bullshit out of it, I would give both my kidneys to Audi for this. Since they definitely can’t, I’ll stick to dreaming about old S6 Avants, and driving my XJ.

You know, if they keep this shit up, I’m going to have to start wearing a helmet in the Jeep, just so I can have a HUD. Spent too many years driving a car with a built-in HUD, and now don’t ever want to do without.

I was really waiting for some kind of actual garbage can - not a gilded lily of a wastebin-from-the-future - to be nominated, but no, it’s SimpleHuman all the way. (Glad that Ikea thing got honorably mentioned.) I just don’t understand: I use a generic dollar-store foot-opening plastic can that cost all of 20 bucks,…

I was really waiting for some kind of actual garbage can - not a gilded lily of a wastebin-from-the-future - to be…

Best: 1997 Audi A4 quattro. In the snow. On Blizzaks.

Wouldn’t this strategy be vulnerable to “defection,” since a given party has more to gain by lying about their red line than they do by being truthful?