All good points, but I might add 3 more considerations:

I’m not advocating for full citizen rights or the right to vote for the unborn - even a 17 year old doesn’t get that. I am saying they are legally considered human in many areas in law. For example, in most states killing a fetus deliberately is considered a homicide, and killing a pregnant mother and her fetus is…

Any data on kids?

Can we admit there is a balance to be had here?

An excellent list, but I would add one more, which is kind of the opposite of declinism:

How would it serve as a deterrent if it didn’t have stopping power?

No

I could think of 2 easy ways: Make illegal

If we do then let’s go there. If not, let’s stick to the more important issue. Do you actually agree or are you just changing the topic from a very important one, to one that is important but arguably less so as it affects far less of the population?

It works the same way here now. Once you are on the pill, you can get it. There was however a recent push to remove the initial assessment, which is what I consider dangerous, but conservatives who opposed the proposed legislation were quickly mocked as being anti-women when I see it as an essential part of medical…

Please go refresh on your basic biology. Egg cells are cells genetically identical to the mother. A fertilized egg is a genetically distinct individual. They couldn’t be more different.

I presented evidence and arguments, you just mocked me without providing any evidence or arguments. A page that might be useful to you:

Never said it did - the case is that is simpler to prove not in rape, and applies to >99% of abortions. If you agree abortion is murder in those 99% of cases we can move on to the case of rape. If not, lets stick with the bigger issue.

I’m sorry - I assumed a concept simple enough that it is covered in a high school biology class was common knowledge. Here is a quick refresher of how a sperm and egg fuse. The result is a genetically distinct organism, while sperm are genetically identical to the man who produced them. Particularly look at the…

What’s not true?
Go see what services the average planned parenthood offers - birth control and abortion are easy to find, prenatal care is practically non-existent in its clinics even though its on their website.

2 factors: intentionality AND choice.

I’m convinced its murder there too, but it is a longer argument, that applies to <1% of abortion cases. If you agree that the 99% of cases of abortion not resulting from rape are murder we can move on and have that discussion, but if not I think its better to restrict ourselves to the most important issues that have…

Please show me ONE place in my argument where I appealed to any scripture or religious principle to make my point. Without doing so, bringing religion into this is worse than irrelevant - as nothing you said here refutes my point, it seems you only brought it up to drop to a personal attack so you can reject my…

I am aware that birth control is not 100% effective. It is very effective, but not perfect. That does nothing however to affect the morality of terminating the pregnancy. Anyone who has sex knows there is a chance, larger or small depending on some factors they control and some they don’t, that they will get pregnant.…

No, I never say its okay in the case of rape. Read what I said again. I posed an argument that applied to every context except rape. There are other arguments that apply to the case of rape, but I’m confining myself in this discussion to the >99% of abortions where rape is not the cause of the child. If you agree its…