That’s fine, but I’ve shown in my reaction to others that I’m willing to engage in a discussion of how well it did what it actually was, and it’s fine to disagree on that. I don’t think you understand what deconstruction is, I don’t think you understand narrative build, and I don’t think you have a strong critique. I…

Also, though I’m sure it wasn’t meant this way it just came across that way rhetorically, deconstruction isn’t just a defense. It is what the work is trying to do just as it’s what The Matrix trilogy is trying to do. We can debate how effectively it does that, as we’re doing here, but I think we can both agree any…

I’m sorry we’re just at an impasse. I just think you are completely and fatally incorrect. While the last two seasons are rushed and that’s an aesthetic problem, you really do have to ignore S1-6 to say that the final moves were unjustified. They were rushed, yes, but they absolutely flowed form what we had seen in…

Thank you. THIS is a response to how well they do or do not do the deconstruction of the tropes they are aiming at.

I’m going to agree with you aesthetically, I am 100% in agreement that from an artistic perspective the last two seasons were rushed and should have had more time to breathe.

If so the endgame critiques don’t reflect it. I don’t think most people understand what a deconstruction really is, and instead thought it meant making some more gritty choices rather than actually attacking sacrosanct narrative tropes. 

People didn’t have a problem prior to season 8 because you can still think you are watching a conventional fantasy narrative where those characters will END UP somewhere else, at least the surviving ones. And to be fair to people who felt that way, episodes like “The Broken Man” did hint towards that idea (obviously…

I realize I should also clarify, I’m not using “stupid” or “foolish” pejoratively about the person doing the critiquing. The English language, despite having a ridiculously huge vocabulary, is still limited in some ways. I mean the take is missing a huge amount of subtext that should seem obvious in retrospect. I…

And it’s absolutely about what happens in S 1-7. That’s literally my point. THERE IS NO HEEL TURN. She is ALWAYS that. Always. She was NEVER a hero, she just had some sympathetic motives. That is literally the point that Tyrion explains at the end. And you aren’t supposed to get it while it’s happening because a big…

I fundamentally disagree. The nature of the criticism (you ruined this arc, you didn’t set up this arc right) suggests they absolutely DON’T understand what the show is doing. If you are analyzing with the lens of traditional narrative expectations, which is what you are doing when describing Dany as HAVING a Heel…

Again, I think a lot of people didn’t grasp what the show was doing. The entire point is that people don’t work like that. Jaime is BOTH the person who loves Cersei and loves Brienne, the person who saved King’s Landing from the Mad King and pushed a ten year old out of a tower to hide his incestuos reationship; he…

I think the difference is if you are able to look back retrospectively and realize the “sense of justice” was always secondary and always really about a single injustice, slavery and that because she personally related to it in having never been in control of her own life. Which is good so far as it goes, she should…

Ah, yes, ye olde “wall of text” criticism. Cool, cool. That’s always relevant and engaging, especially on a site like this devoted to media analysis. Have fun with that.

I read the books, but none of that is relevant to the show criticism. At all. Shows and books are different things, both aesthetically and canonically. You may have also missed that while the Seven in the books are a quasi-Catholic Trinity deal of multiple aspects of the same entity in the show it is a clear…

And for others, again, this is all subverting the IDEA of narrative arcs. It’s calling BS on Darth Vader’s redemption, it’s calling BS on Aragorn’s becoming a good ruler just because he was a heroic warrior, it’s calling BS on the general model of seeking a *person* to fix things. The reason Bran ends up as King has…

One, it’s not readers it’s viewers here. I read the books, just like I read Wheel of Time, but the show Game of Thrones is a different thing from ASOIAF, just as the WoT show is different from the books. The knowledge of one can be interesting to compare to the other, but canonically they aren’t the same and can’t be…

You didn’t understand the point of Jaime’s entire arc then. Go back to Star Wars. 

Except it totally was, IN RETROSPECT. That’s the point. They were disguising the heel turn while at the same time making it obvious in retrospect.

He’s 100% right and saying a lot of what I’ve been saying since it ended.

Tell me you didn’t understand the show without telling me you didn’t understand the show.