Yeah, Hellboy really is notable for its absence.

I think the two problems with Thor for new readers are 1) Simonson's run starts off with where previous runs left off. Even as a Marvel Zombie, I kinda had to be like, "Wait, what's Baldur's deal right now?" at the outset. 2) It's pretty lengthy run. Might want to make the ask a bit lower for new readers.

Yeah, I think when you go before the 80s, the medium was just so different (and in many cases, so primitive) that it's not a helpful way to expose new readers to what comics can do.

I think the issue is, while it's self-contained, it's an epic work. If you're just getting someone into comics, you may want to give them something that asks for less commitment.

Here's three:

Identity Crisis is a series of somewhat interesting character beats (everyone hoping Ralph can keep it together at the funeral, the "this just got series, move aside so Superman can take over" moment, Deathstroke trying to work a power ring) strung together by a plot of unrelenting ugliness.

It'd be a lot of fun if the characters had complete different conclusions than the fans, like they all thought Wolverine was a dork, or something.

Oh, don't get me wrong, AvX is bad. But I fully believe Civil War is worse, and your expressions of incredulity at this opinion isn't exactly a compelling counter-argument.

Plenty of Tea Partiers will tell you they protested the Iraq War. ;)

"What were you smoking?"

There's a weird thing, and Millar is as guilty of this as anyone, where everyone assumes that because Steve Rogers is a patriotic soldier he must be a good ol' boy. But he grew up in Brooklyn in the Great Depression and the U.S. government literally made his dream come true. It even rebuilt his body to do so! This…

Oh yeah, I'm sure they hated it, that's what I meant.

"Most resembles", sure, but still isn't very close. The MCU Avengers aren't half as mean-spirited as the Ultimates.

Didn't Peter Parker go to college in something like ASM #33? That's a very narrow definition of the "good ol' days"!

"They wanted to have a conflict, but they had to force it."

That's the magic of Mark Millar!

Well, Iron Man can always just fight Whiplash again. But there's not many other Hank Pym stories to tell.

One of the things I love about Waid's Hulk is that Banner is kind of an obsessed-with-credit dick.

Nah, it was all over the place before Disassembled/New Avengers. As I recall, it was a big part of the Crossing, and even guys who like Pym like Busiek were consciously trying to "redeem" him, which implies a sin in the first place.

A *different kind* of team leader, too- not just the rah-rah stuff of Cap and Thor, she really struggled with stuff like roster construction, dealing with the government, etc.