it's a fine but fairly one-note debut that doesn't even touch the fleshed-out brilliance of the two records that followed it.

but a lot of pretty incredible artists do that. prince, anyone? i'm more than happy to wade through the crazy to get the genius.

no.

how did they "go out on" ava adore?

yep. don't know where this idea arose that the earlier, more accessible/guitar-heavy SP was somehow this straightforward rock thing and then corgan got weird and introspective. only the mookiest mook-rock types screamed for them to "go back to cherub rock" or whatever. the whole crux of early 90s alternative rock…

it's in c# on the album, probably a detuned d. not sure where you're getting the f#/g stuff.

i adore shame. (n.p.i.) i find it deeply affecting.

yeah, i'm a bit surprised at the hate for a.a. as well, but i have to think it's mostly from people who don't *really* like SP that much. i think it's pretty fucking great, the perfect middle-ground between the trad-hard rock pumpkins and the gothier, depeche-ier version. and they were AMAZING on the live tour for…

i find it pretty bland.

it's actually damn good.

being the best fucking band ever, for a start.

"Drown."

then you weren't a "massive fan." you don't go from being passionately into a band to never even hearing their fourth record, 8 years into their career, 5 years after they became superstars, barely 3 years after they basically conquered the world.

i never much liked blank page either, and i'm as diehard as they come. fuck pitchfork, though. fuck them (it?) hard.

my favorite too, right ahead of for martha, the other song about his mother.

pisces iscariot is a b-sides compilation. it's not supposed to be consistent.

greatest rock record ever made.

fuck pavement.

you really don't know it's "Monkees"?

yeah jeb isn't that terrible a bush