I work at a cement plant, and you’re totally right. The entitlement and privilege of being male is something that’s been beaten into all of our heads over time and it’s extremely difficult to unwire that thinking. I notice it in meetings when I’m constantly talked over, or when I threw a fit that my (lady) gate guard…

I remember that terrible day vividly. IDK about the rest of the States, but it was big news in Seattle. It was my first experience of existential terror, “OMFG, there are people who would murder me just for being a woman who doesn’t want to be property.” 

My point was more about the incel veneration of him as a hero to their movement, and that we have had mass shootings in Canada, targeted at women. But i’ll concede that he wasn’t an incel.

I used to try to give advice to incels on Reddit. In this case, these were guys who were seeking advice on an anti-incel forum, so they had a genuine desire to improve their lives.

This is a great point, and also really, really important. Toxic masculinity needs to be nipped in the bud as soon as possible. The sooner we teach young men that women are human beings- not just objects, the better.

I think there’s probably a lot more traction in preventing men and boys from falling into that culture in the first place, and that does require active engagement from other men/fathers/etc. I have three sons, and one of my nightmares is waking up and realizing one of them has fallen into some toxic internet…

I can see the logic in that (despite how depressing it is). Thank you for speaking from a guy’s perspective.

Lots of us try, and I can tell you, it is fucking exhausting. Part of the reason incel culture is so pervasive is that it gives these guys a self-validating identity. It tells them who they are in a way that doesn’t challenge any of their real issues. It turns everything outward: Their predicament is because of X, Y,…

They need to be taken as seriously as white nationalists in terms of the damage they can do.

I don’t disagree!

I feel like the comments in this article are straying into anecdotes, instead of ways to disable this culture.

There are so many interesting people out there, you guys! Just in my small circle of friends I know people who have traveled the world, who sing in choirs, who take art classes, who tutor adults in literacy or teach new immigrants English, who are on the board of directors for the local library system or arts council,…

It’s also not about the ability to attract a woman, it’s about the ability to not be ‘given’ the ‘right’ woman by society. For your 60 year old friend, a 60 year old woman wouldn’t be acceptable, she’s past her prime while he is still a virile man!

One quibble here - in Canada, we have a very famous incel rampage that was gun based back in 1989. 14 women killed, 14 others wounded in what is called the “Montreal Massacre”. I guess this killer didn’t call himself incel, but his attack was because of anti-feminism. He walked into the class at Ecole Polytechnique,…

I don’t think it’s as simple as women turn inward and men turn outward. I’m a guy (hetero & cis) and when I’ve gotten low on myself, it’s always taken the form of beating myself up.

Well, women are taught that a man is a necessity that they must earn, and men are taught that women are an entitlement they deserve.  Seriously, when I have you heard “you’ll never get a wife/woman that way” the way you hear “you’ll never get a man/husband that way?”

Guys, she's right. The Civil Rights Movement was only effective because people calmly and politely asked for equality and justice.

I’m just talking about my experience listening to her/reading her. She makes taking her kids to the dentist sound like the Bataan Death March. And she does this all the time, with everything. It’s exhausting, which is why I’ve largely cut out reading or listening to her, and when I do listen to her we (my sister and…

Because it’s happening to poor, non-white people.

To me the two things that stick out