Crayons, you're right. Nature vs. nurture is an important prism through which to view the characters in the book. However, I see the Miranda-Arty connection is being rooted in the unreliability of Olympia as a narrator, which has been well-established by other members of the commentariat. Olympia has the same sort of…

Feminist, I may have misread your conclusion "if something isn't accessible to intelligent, imaginative readers who did not have a specific set of experiences, that is a criticism of that writer's ability", but are you suggesting that a writer deserves criticism if he or she does not write with a universal (or…

We'll always have Naked Lunch.

Speaking for myself, I have no anti-Tasha feelings at all! I'm just an opinionated guy, and took aesthetic exception with some of her comments. Disagreement is not synonymous with disapproval.

Secret Sensei, this was one of the most powerful passages in the book for me as well. Childhood is something I'm glad to be done with, as the cruelties and sufferings you undergo in the course of it are magnified by the fact that you have nothing to compare them to.

Aren't we discussing something that's not necessarily Whedonesque, but rather a basic tenet of dramatic construction? Creating an interesting conflict (be it Elly vs. Arty, or Olympia withholding the truth vs. Miranda learning about her past) is pretty much a fundamental, and the one surefire way to dissolve the…

Wow, if you guys could find some way to make that happen, a post-selection interview with Dunn, that would be fantastic. It would be a really spectacular way of providing a capstone for all of the discussion and debate surrounding the book.

We haven't spent much time discussing Miranda on these boards. I agree with Tasha that Miranda is not necessarily a sympathetic character simply because she is the beloved of the narrator, and in fact displays rather self-involved, insensitive behavior. I can't think of a single thing she does that's not out of…

You're absolutely right, Chubby. Olympia acts like a lifer who's been paroled, and spends her freedom trying to reconstruct her life in prison.

One of the staffers, Leonard I believe, has pointed out that Dunn was inspired by Jonestown and the People's Temple to write this book, to explore insular familial, organizational systems in which its members voluntarily destroy themselves for approval.

If I'm remembering right, there are passages early in the book where Oly speaks with unmitigated pride about how completely she serves Arty, and loves him, in a way that noone else in the family is capable of. She defines herself for most of the book by her devotion to Arty, so to defy Arty, to break that unending…

Tricking young girls into horrifically altering their appearance to suit your fancy isn't indicative of a huge ego?

Again, I think physical freakdom is not nearly as important to Dunn as psychological freakdom. I wrote on an earlier thread about physical abnormalities merely being an indicator for the profoundly fucked-up psyches of their owners (See The Bag Man, Arturo the Aqua Boy). But really, EVERYONE in this book is pretty…

I disagree with the conclusion that Miss Lick is under-developed, or an illogically written character. In the twisted netherworld of this novel, her obsessive quest to rob young women of the beauty and sexuality she herself has never enjoyed nor even comprehended makes perfect sense.

Looking back over my post, and the responses to it, I feel that I should have phrased my thoughts more carefully, and that what I wrote was one toke over the line, proverbially speaking. I warn ya'll, this post is lengthy…

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it that way, Miller. Interpreting Geek Love as the world's unlikeliest pro-family tract is one I did not see coming.

Yeah, Natty. Arty's response to his disability is to make as many people as possible even more disabled than he is.

Ehh…The separate pages don't bother me so much, as it is cleaner than having one chaotic, uber-comment board. I am a little saddened to see Wrapped Up in Books relegated to such a tiny ghetto of the AVclub.com main page.

I also agree with Zack. The destruction of the carnival didn't feel like the horrible climax of Arturo's rise to power, Chick's awesome gifts, the slow destruction of the twins, the passivity of Olympia and her parents, but rather like Katharine Dunn giving up on a story she found herself unable to propel any further.

These drawings are quite good. They are less…horrific than I envisioned. I always pictured Arturo as being shorter and much paler, though.