Exactly. Just as not all Christians were Conquistadors, not all Norsemen were raiders. And even those who were, were not necessarily dead set on raiding, if they perceived other opportuntities - I like that the show has introduced Ragnar's nostalgia for his roots as a farmer. He obviously doesn't envision himself…

nope, but the Viking landgrabs weren't religiously motivated either. All I'm saying is that Christianity obviously doesn't magically inoculate you against being a rapist scumbag colonialist.

See, that's how you make a more nuanced argument in favour of a positive Christian influence.

If your claim is that Christians are better than Vikings, because Christians wouldn't do some of those awful things that Vikings did, and I point you towards evidence that Christians absolutely _did_ do some of those awful things that Vikings did, how on earth could that possibly not be relevant to the discussion?

And what I was trying to get at was that the Norse absolutely had enough respect for private property to have their own florishing merchant class (not all of them were raiders, you know), so that's not necessarily what they would have needed Christianity for.

The unfair thing is not pointing out that the Vikings were cruel, the unfair thing is pretending that Christians of that time (and let's be honest, of many following centuries) woud be acting less cruel in compareable scenarios. They demonstrably didn't.

Oh, I've never claimed that all Christians are evil either, merely pointed out that the Vikings weren't in any significant way worse than them. Surely your plea not to unfairly judge civilizations of past centuries should be extended to the Vikings themselves, no? Of course they wouldn't fare well according to modern…

(re. win/win situation for the former victims of the Vikings - presumably everyone involved was already properly Christian at the times of the Norman conquest, but that hardly made the whole affair more pleasant for the conquered, didn't it?)

Oh, I wouldn't discount the spiritual aspect completely and I'm sorry if my initial comment came off that way. Of course there is always more than one factor at play. But yeah, I would still think for longterm mass-conversions, several favourable conditions would have to be in place, some of them political, and at…

Oh, I'm sure Athelstan might have had some hopes of missionary success at the start - there is a cute cut-scene with Gyda I've seen on tumblr where he talks a bit about his faith and we see a resentful Björn glaring at him in the background. Athelstan might have had some success with someone like Gyda, had she lived.…

I think the St. Patricks of this world a very, very rare and that Athelstan's Stockholm Syndrome is probably the more common coping mechanism. He has to ingratiate himself with the pagans if he wants to live and that's going to be more difficult if he clings to a religion that would condemn them to hell. I'm sure it…

I don't think Athelstan could have hoped to earn enough respect to escape the stigma of his past as a slave in any other way. No murdering, no arm ring. No arm ring, no equality.

Lagertha killing her way back into Ragnar's life would actually be pretty much canon, at least according to one version of the legends I've read on wikipedia.

I think any attempts of conversion would have drastically lowered Athelstan's chances of survival and he seems to have a pretty good survival instinct. Not everyone's cut out to be a martyr.

Oh, I always found it absurd as well, but there definitely have been people who thought otherwise. There are 28 entries for Liz Lemon/Jack Donaghy on Archives of Our Own. (Not a lot, granted, but still)

Neither is the reverse scenario.

Any kind of white saviour-scenario, really, with the likes of Kevin Costner, Tom Cruise or that guy in Avatar out-nativing the natives.

You're underestimating fanfiction communities. They're going to find that ambiguity whether it's there or not.

Solution: Have more than one black dude in the story.

I think people underestimate the protectiveness triggered by youth. Pretty teenage boy cut down in his prime? Should work as well. In LesMisFandom everyone is appropriately heart-broken about the sad fate of the barricade boys (who do get some introdcution before, granted, but still, minor characters in the larger…