I don't know. The only thing that's completely clear to me is that almost everybody was willing to do almost anything to get their way. Senators on both sides using any and all tactics to their advantage; activists turning to civil disobedience; bloggers, politicians, and the media smearing opponents, etc. I…

Are you sure? The record shows several points of order being denied. It doesn't show who raised them or what they were for - so they may have been to give her a break of sorts, but I would bet they were failed attempts to suspend her filibuster.

See, if he would've said, "I'm just looking for a one-night stand, I don't care about anything other than their body", well - that's an entirely DIFFERENT can of worms with its own problems. But if you just want a physical one-night stand, in some weird sense the ends justify the twisted, sketchy, sleazy means.

Yeah, exactly. The whole approach just sorta precludes anything real. It really doesn't even make any sense to me.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm definitely not going out with him again.

Lol, for real! There's some seriously twisted and messed-up psychology going on here. It makes me wonder if anybody's written up a psych paper on PUAs.

OMG, I went out with an acquaintance for what I thought was supposed to a beer at a sports bar, and to catch a baseball game. It turned out he's a PUA and wanted me to be his "wingman".

Yeah, that was my first question: Is this different from men? I'm a "millenial man" (28) and I for sure don't want to lead a large corporation. My career arc is pushing me in that direction and I don't want it. I want a family, I want kids, I want a dog. I want to be fit and spend time with them. I want my life…

I was honestly expecting a lot of unhappy people - and surprisingly only 3 or 4 showed up. And I looked at their history and they all had a history of fairly... howshallwesay... "must take the offensive" comments. I think it does help to actually be sincere on J.

From Aimdawg, *great* practical info:

Double-posting on purpose, 'cuz I can't figure out the threading on Kinja:

Awesome, thanks! I don't know how to get you out of the grey, but I feel like this should be up at the top of all of the comments, period - practical advice on how to help victims, for people who don't know what to do.

Somebody did the legwork for us! Aimdawg ended up in the grey, but here's what they wrote (I hope the links work.):

I don't know. In my highschool, athletes were popular, looked up to. And it seems like that's the norm, at least in the US? In retrospect, there were warning signs, but hindsight is 20/20.

Oh for sure, there are many reasons people blame the victim. I think you're right - rape victim blame in particular can have much more sinister motivations than "self-preservation of inner peace."

Harsh/strong reaction: oh no worries!

That makes sense to me too. Talking about the two at the same time has to imply a connection. And I guess that's what Serena's apology is about - she made that connection, even if she didn't intend to? And she's sorry she did?

Oh yes! I'd like to know how we should respond too! I've had people come to me "in confidence" about things that are NOT okay, and I know it's my duty to betray that confidence in certain situations - child abuse, rape, crime, etc. But I definitely don't know how I'd respond to the *person* and not just the…

See, I think this is bad. These were football stars. I wouldn't think of them as shady before-the-fact. To me, this is what makes the whole situation worse. They should have been her friend. They should have seen a person, with hopes and dreams, to be protected and helped. She should have been able to trust them…

That seems very open to interpretation - "reasonably expect to live their life". Maybe it can be tightened up a bit somehow?