OMG, I went out with an acquaintance for what I thought was supposed to a beer at a sports bar, and to catch a baseball game. It turned out he's a PUA and wanted me to be his "wingman".

Yeah, that was my first question: Is this different from men? I'm a "millenial man" (28) and I for sure don't want to lead a large corporation. My career arc is pushing me in that direction and I don't want it. I want a family, I want kids, I want a dog. I want to be fit and spend time with them. I want my life…

I was honestly expecting a lot of unhappy people - and surprisingly only 3 or 4 showed up. And I looked at their history and they all had a history of fairly... howshallwesay... "must take the offensive" comments. I think it does help to actually be sincere on J.

From Aimdawg, *great* practical info:

Double-posting on purpose, 'cuz I can't figure out the threading on Kinja:

Awesome, thanks! I don't know how to get you out of the grey, but I feel like this should be up at the top of all of the comments, period - practical advice on how to help victims, for people who don't know what to do.

Somebody did the legwork for us! Aimdawg ended up in the grey, but here's what they wrote (I hope the links work.):

I don't know. In my highschool, athletes were popular, looked up to. And it seems like that's the norm, at least in the US? In retrospect, there were warning signs, but hindsight is 20/20.

Oh for sure, there are many reasons people blame the victim. I think you're right - rape victim blame in particular can have much more sinister motivations than "self-preservation of inner peace."

Harsh/strong reaction: oh no worries!

That makes sense to me too. Talking about the two at the same time has to imply a connection. And I guess that's what Serena's apology is about - she made that connection, even if she didn't intend to? And she's sorry she did?

Oh yes! I'd like to know how we should respond too! I've had people come to me "in confidence" about things that are NOT okay, and I know it's my duty to betray that confidence in certain situations - child abuse, rape, crime, etc. But I definitely don't know how I'd respond to the *person* and not just the…

See, I think this is bad. These were football stars. I wouldn't think of them as shady before-the-fact. To me, this is what makes the whole situation worse. They should have been her friend. They should have seen a person, with hopes and dreams, to be protected and helped. She should have been able to trust them…

That seems very open to interpretation - "reasonably expect to live their life". Maybe it can be tightened up a bit somehow?

Yeah. That makes sense to me. I've fallen asleep at parties before, and just ended up being drawn on. I mean, still a violation technically, but it's a good distinction that there are differences between being careful and inevitable consequences.

Oh awesome. I love this answer. It's short and it makes perfect sense. I don't think there's anything I could add or subtract from this.

Maybe I see what you mean - there's an assumption that these two ideas are connected, when they really aren't? As in, taking precautions for your safety and getting raped have literally nothing to do with each other?

Yeah, that's definitely true, rape isn't mugging - I guess drawing analogies is probably not going to be useful.

So, trying to paraphrase: what you're saying is that the real problem with what Selena said isn't that being cautious is a bad idea, it's that it was associated with a victim and that has to carry an implication of fault - and that implication is the problem?

Honest question: It's never ever *ever* the victim's fault. I firmly believe that. It doesn't matter what they wore, what they did, how intoxicated they were (typical and totally faulty reasons people might blame a victim), it's *never* the rapee's fault that they got raped. (Or murdee's fault they were murdered,…