See, I think this is bad. These were football stars. I wouldn't think of them as shady before-the-fact. To me, this is what makes the whole situation worse. They should have been her friend. They should have seen a person, with hopes and dreams, to be protected and helped. She should have been able to trust them…

That seems very open to interpretation - "reasonably expect to live their life". Maybe it can be tightened up a bit somehow?

Yeah. That makes sense to me. I've fallen asleep at parties before, and just ended up being drawn on. I mean, still a violation technically, but it's a good distinction that there are differences between being careful and inevitable consequences.

Oh awesome. I love this answer. It's short and it makes perfect sense. I don't think there's anything I could add or subtract from this.

Maybe I see what you mean - there's an assumption that these two ideas are connected, when they really aren't? As in, taking precautions for your safety and getting raped have literally nothing to do with each other?

Yeah, that's definitely true, rape isn't mugging - I guess drawing analogies is probably not going to be useful.

So, trying to paraphrase: what you're saying is that the real problem with what Selena said isn't that being cautious is a bad idea, it's that it was associated with a victim and that has to carry an implication of fault - and that implication is the problem?

Honest question: It's never ever *ever* the victim's fault. I firmly believe that. It doesn't matter what they wore, what they did, how intoxicated they were (typical and totally faulty reasons people might blame a victim), it's *never* the rapee's fault that they got raped. (Or murdee's fault they were murdered,…

Just thought I'd offer some encouragement as a guy who's trying to do the right thing too. (No claim on actually understanding what the right thing is, or even executing it well, lol. Definitely not perfect!)

So this isn't quite a hack, but rather, knowing when to apply hacks. I learned the difference between "things I can hack myself" and "things I think I can hack myself, but really shouldn't."

Seriously. If you don't have this down, you'll waste more time than you'll ever save.

Lol, my worst mistake was mentioning I read Lifehacker. I don't think Apple takes you guys seriously!

Well... I can't respond to all of that, I just don't have time. I think we've reached the point where it's time to move on. I mostly agree with what you said, you mostly understand why I've said what I've said, and I think "mostly" is probably "as good as it's gonna get for now".

Oh, and for the record, I've never edited my comments (except maybe to add things, never change them, that's a cardinal sin in debate and the Internet), and those comments are still there.

That's better: I can respond to that. Thanks, for probably the first thoughtful response to me in this thread.

Fair enough. I will recommend you - you have a good point. I do have strong feelings when it comes to academia's injustices, and whether they're valid or not, they might not always be appropriate.

First: I never defended the professor. I am highly offended that you assume I did, that you read things into what I wrote that *simply* *aren't* *there*. Please, quote me, somewhere, anywhere, defending the professor.

Ah, right, that's my own heritage popping up. My family is Spanish, by way of Mexico. So I tend to use the two interchangeably when talking about myself, because I'm both.

Oh no, I agree with you. Totally.

Nope. See, *now* I'm mad. I'm Mexican, I've dealt with weight issues, very premature baldness, and more, which all carry their own degrees of bias in society. You don't know me.

So I'm not Mexican? And I don't deal with my own weight issues and baldness? And my father, the person I respect most in my life, and love, isn't obese? And our family hasn't dealt with the psychology of weight issues - some with more success than others? And I'm not terrified that he won't live to see his grandkids…