Ah ok then, sorry to misunderstand you. I still don't know that I completely agree with you, but I get where you're coming from now.

It's the Something Awful forum (don't be put off by the name!). It's $10 to join which does keep out a lot of the creeps and trolls, but you can browse for free to see if you want to join. There's several sub-forums within it like cars, computers, cooking, comic books; pretty much anything you can think of. The admins…

Why would I, or any woman, want a "slightly pretentious man" who uses me for sex any percent of the time? That "hypothetical" guy sounds like a dick.

A relationship between lovers is a sexual relationship. Duh. There exist other types of relationships which are very loving, that don't involve sex. So what you mean when you say everyone is entitled to love, is that everyone is entitled to romantic love. Which is completely different.

If this article were actually about telling these guys they're being ripped off and raising awareness of explotative practices on WOW you'd have a point. But it's not, so you don't.

There's tons of stuff people get paid for that your friends do for free. That's a bizarre arguement. When my friend had a baby I cleaned her house for her. I've helped male and female friends move, I've helped them paint their apartments, I've baked them cakes and looked after their pets, and they've done the same for…

You clearly have no grasp on all the attendant consequences of women pressing sexual harassment suits and it affect on your future employability. And as you're not a woman and will never experience what it means to be a woman and objectified on a daily basis, you really have no grounds to call my statement hyperbole.

Exactly how widespread do you think this problem of men giving women they barely know, gifts worth hundreds of dollars? Because the Nice Guys I know are not doing this. They're helping a girl move house or listening to her talk about her problems and expecting the girl to fuck them, not giving her a Tiffany bracelet.

So I'm not allowed to claim I know a man's motivations, but you're allowed to claim that you know what women do and don't know for a fact? Nice.

You're assuming that the woman is also operating within the confines of this romantic context. If a guy gives a gift believing it be given in a romantic context but without explicitly stating so, while the woman has no interest in the guy and doesn't attribute any romantic intent to it, then it's not the woman's fault…

This is at the heart of the Nice Guy mentality. "I'm existing at a basic level of human decency. Why don't women want to have sex with me?"

It doesn't matter how educated your crowd is. I work with doctors who are some of the most sexist dickheads around. Being treated like a walking sex dispenser knows no race, creed, colour or level of education unfortunately. Once you realise that women have to interact with the world with an added layer of bullshit,…

Yeah so true. I don't know any of my girlfriends who haven't spent hours crying to her girlfriends about her unrequited crush or drowning her sorrows in a bottle of vodka and some inappropriate karaoke when the guy she likes started dating someone else. Women suffer rejection just as much too.

"you don't understand how lonely, angry, frustrated and desperate these guys are."

A thousand times THIS.

So you're "settling" for average girls and then get angry when they pick up on that vibe and don't want to go out with you? Shocking.

Wow, your completely ambiguous comment which does nothing to explain any "data" you may have or even describe what the hell you're talking about has really changed my mind on this whole debate.

Sorry about that. I've obviously been on the internet too long today.

Yeah it's pretty much subjective and prone to personal bias. I suspect that if you're not having much luck with women, you just extrapolate that to mean that zero women want to have sex with you. Likewise if you're getting tons of sex you believe it's easier than it is. It just shits me that there are guys sitting…

I would never condone exploitation of any man or woman. But you don't know the details of people's lives either. You don't know for a fact that they're not entirely aware of the situation they're in and choose to enter it willingly for their own reasons. It just seems really judgemental and condescending for you to…