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- It's getting outta control.

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I mean, I think by almost any standard.

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- All right, so Bitcoin
is at an all time high.

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Why does it keep going up?

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- Well, I think there's,
there's a couple of reasons.

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One is that the, the
SEC just made it easier

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for the average person to invest in it by,

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by approving an ETF, so that,

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that clearly has made it
a lot easier for people

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to, to buy into it.

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I also think it has something
to do, particularly in,

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in the context of the fact

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that gold is going up at the
same time, at least recently,

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that it has a lot to
do with the, the fiscal

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and monetary situation in the
US and, and around the world.

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But particularly in the US
there's really no coordination

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between fiscal and monetary policy when it

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comes to inflation.

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Yeah. And I think people are looking

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for hedges against fiat currencies,
particularly the dollar.

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So I, I think that's another
reason why people are looking

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for alternatives to what would
traditionally be, again, seen

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as, as fiat currencies.

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- Okay. So you think it's
getting a little outta control?

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- It's getting outta control.

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I mean, I think by almost
any standard, right?

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Right now the US has $34 trillion in debt.

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The last trillion dollars
was added in three months.

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And part of the problem is

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that we never termed out our debt.

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50% of our debt matures
in the next three years.

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So interest expenses
are rapidly increasing

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and rapidly really crowding
out other parts of the budget.

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- Yeah, it sounds really dangerous.

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- It is. You know, the
having the reserve currency

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has been called the, the
exorbitant privilege.

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There was a French finance
minister called Gestad Ang,

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he called it the exorbitant privilege.

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And what he meant is that
you get away with a lot

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of bad behavior when you
have the reserve currency.

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You can, you can do a lot of risky things,

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but we're, you know, we're
kind of rapidly approaching,

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you know, Johnny Depp, Charlie
Sheen, types of levels of,

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of irresponsibility.

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I, I think fiscally

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- Fiscal policy is Johnny Depp,
Charlie Sheen level, like,

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like the edge of falling apart maybe,

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or risk taking where Well, we're

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- Taking a lot of risks.

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Yeah. And, and the, the biggest, it's hard

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to lose the reserve
currency once you have it,

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and the US is not at risk of losing it,

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but it is at risk

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of having significantly
higher interest rates

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or having a much weaker currency

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or baking in higher
inflation for a long period

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of time, just based on
the fact that we're,

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we're not being responsible in terms of

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our fiscal responsibilities.

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- If our fiscal policies are
Charlie Sheen in the darkness,

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what is Bitcoin and gold,
or who are Bitcoin and gold?

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Is it Martha Stewart
and Snoop Dogg? Oh, no.

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- Yeah. I'm trying to think
of what the, you know, bit,

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I think would be the, they
would be the, they're maybe seen

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as the 12 step programs

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or they're, they're the things
that would, would, would kind

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of anesthetize you to
some of the bad decisions

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that we're making at the,
at the federal level.

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Part of the problem with,
we've had this policy

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of quantitative easing

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and financial repression since
the global financial crisis

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from, from 2009 through 2021.

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And I think one of the, we,

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we purposely suppressed interest rates

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to stimulate the economy.

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Part of the problem with doing that is

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that you remove the price mechanism

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for policy makers and for investors.

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So there's a lot of moral hazard

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that gets built into the system

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where policy makers are
saying, what's the problem?

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We'll just run bigger deficits.

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Or even investors say,
we'll just take more risk

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because we're not worried
about interest rates being kind

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of the frontier justice that it,

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that it normally should be in
any sort of real free market.

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- Yeah. It feels like
we're playing kick the

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can down the road.

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You bet. Like, and,

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and the election coming up
in November is like the,

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a good marker in the sand for politically

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where it's like they don't
want a recession between now

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and November, so they're
gonna do whatever they can

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to like kick that can
Absolutely. Into December,

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- Right?

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Yeah. And that's, of course,

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that's both sides since I
don't wanna make it a political

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issue, but, you know, every,

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but I, I think clearly
administration is trying

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to avoid a recession at,
at all, at all costs.

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And in some ways that's noble

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because bad things
happen during recessions,

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people lose their job.

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It's, it's not pleasant.

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By the same token, if you
believe in free markets, as I do,

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business cycles are a
normal part of the evolution

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of the economy,

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and there's a risk to avoiding
a recession at all costs.

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And that's, in my opinion,
will be inflation longer term.

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It, it's hard to have it both ways.

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It's hard to kind

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of fix everything if you
believe in free markets

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and the wisdom of free markets.

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- Gotcha. So would you be a
buyer of Bitcoin right now? I

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- Probably, I I, it's hard,
it's hard to say this,

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but I probably would be,
I, I would view it more

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as speculative.

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It's very, it's very, in my opinion,

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it's more speculative than gold,

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but I, I certainly wouldn't
short it, it seems to be,

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there'll be more demand
for it, not, not less,

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unless there's a change in
our, again, in our approach

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to our, our fiscal, our fiscal policies.

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- Yeah. I mean, anybody that's
shortened Bitcoin right now,

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they gotta have their
finger on the trigger 24 7.

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- Yeah, no, this is the, it's,
it, it's risky both ways.

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Risky on the long side and
risky on the short side.

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Right now, I think it's
riskier to be short than long.