WEBVTT

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- I don't see the
Instagram world of filters

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and the fakeness and the self promotion

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that's just showing you
how fantastic people are.

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I follow women that I admire.

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I follow women that inspire me,

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that are aspirational to me,

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that have something to
say that touches me.

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So every time I go on my social media,

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it's like a beautiful little
community that I have curated.

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This is my community.

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(bright music)

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- Do you do anything with
yourself to make yourself,

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tips, beauty hints, that's what we need.

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(audience laughs)
Anything, any tricks?

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Do you find that models tend to be vain

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and shallow and superficial and-

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- I don't think of myself as a model.

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- Oh really, what do you
think of yourself as?

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- Human being, Dave.

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- Throughout your career, you've
been really close to power

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and the concept of beauty and
the concept of desirability.

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So where you are sitting now, today,

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how have your ideas about
those concepts changed

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from when you were a young model?

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- A lot of that is just
the naivety of youth

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and also the flexibility of youth.

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So when you are called beautiful

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when you are in your teens,

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I don't think you spend a
whole lot of time analyzing it.

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You're like, "Oh, well this is great.

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"Ooh, wonderful, apparently I'm beautiful,

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"so I will take the
privilege that comes with it,

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"because that's very nice."

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And I think to a certain extent,

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you see it as anything else
that you do when you're young,

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that you don't have much gratitude,

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because you don't know to be grateful

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for a gift that you were given at birth.

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You don't know that not everybody gets it,

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and you don't spend
time thinking about it.

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You're in your own little world of me.

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And that's the beauty of aging
is that you get perspective.

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- I think your take on beauty too,

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reminds me a lot of Emily Ratajkowski.

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I think we allow women to
profit off of their looks

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or to use their looks to gain more capital

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in this quote, unquote, "man's world,"

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and then once they do so,
they make it, or you make it.

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You're then immediately expected

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to denounce the methods
in which you got there.

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What was that like for you
dealing with that hypocrisy

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or people projecting onto
you, now that you've made it,

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you shouldn't be selling
this product or that product,

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or talking about Botox.

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What does that look like for you?

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- Yeah, so that's a really mixed bag,

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because I understand both sides.

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And to me, it's always interesting.

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I always draw a parallel with athletes,

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because we both make our
living by our bodies.

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They have to train insanely hard

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to be in the best physical shape,

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and then they play a game
for your entertainment.

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This is not brain surgery.
This is for your entertainment.

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And they make vasts amount of money,

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and they're celebrated for all the things

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they give to the sport to entertain you.

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Now, models, we are also using our bodies

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to also entertain you, to sell you things.

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Athletes sell you things too.

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And yet, as soon as we seize on it,

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we are seen as narcissistic and vain.

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And we exercise our
bodies to stay in shape,

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and some women have very
limited eating habits,

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and some of it is downright dangerous.

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Do you get celebrated for that?

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No, you get told,

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"Hey, that's the life
you picked, stupid you!"

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- Yeah, it's unfair for
you, as an individual,

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to have the answer to this
systemic issue, right?

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- Look, this is the
way a society's set up.

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It is a patriarchal society

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in which men have made all the decisions

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that we base everything on.

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Why is it so important
for women to be pretty?

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why is that our main calling card?

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Did we set that in
motion? I don't think so.

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- And I'm just tired.
Are you tired of that?

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(laughing) I'm tired.
- Yes, I'm tired of it.

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And at the same time, I'm
totally buying into it,

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and that's the sad part.

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Did I come on here with no makeup?

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- No.
- No.

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I'm still here trying to be pretty.

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- And are you okay with
being complicit in that?

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- I don't know how to
balance this specific issue.

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Am I okay with being
complicit, because as a woman,

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yeah, I am an invisible woman,
and I'm not okay with it.

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I think I have way more to contribute

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to society and to people
than I ever had before.

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So, I don't want to stay invisible.

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- There's a chapter in your book

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in which you talk about some
of the sexual harassment

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and sexual assault that you
dealt with on photo shoot sets.

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Obviously, this is still
somewhat of a dynamic

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that young models and fashion workers

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are dealing with today.

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How are you hoping to help them

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or raise awareness of what this proximity

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to these power players does to them?

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- To tell my own story,
raise awareness in that way.

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It's like, look, I was 15,

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and this is what was happening around me.

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And the worst part of it

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was that I took it as normal, natural,

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that that's the way that
the world was set up,

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and it was okay.

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And only now do I
understand it wasn't okay.

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- And just for our "Jezebel" audience,

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what do you hope that your legacy is?

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- It would be really lovely
if somehow I had a little hand

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in making the invisible visible.

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(bright music)