WEBVTT

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♪ You were the first one ♪

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- [Sheila] Let's do this thing!

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- [Man] Babe, seriously, the coffee?

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- [Sheila] God forbid, you
have anything valuable to do.

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- So I was wondering if you could tell me

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sort of about the origin
of the story for you?

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I know you're originally
from the San Diego area,

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but do you have in a aerobics,
what's your fascination?

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I remember my mom doing
aerobics in the 80s

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and then step in the 90s
and all that sort of stuff.

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- Yeah, that was me.

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I was your mom.

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(Annie laughs)

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The inspiration for the show,

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it came from really wanting
to kind of start to talk about

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something that I've been really
struggling with privately

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for so many years,

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which was this really
pernicious eating disorder

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that had been kind of a
very secret part of my life

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and wanting to kind of express
it and get it out there.

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I came up with the idea
to set it in this world

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because I was just fascinated
by this time period

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that I lived through in my childhood

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from the 70s waning and
turning into the 80s.

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So it was kind of the changing
of the culture in this time

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from really this period of idealism

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kind of drawn from the 60s

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into this very different set of values

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that were coming to the fore in the 80s.

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In my own family, it was
represented by my parents

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going from being these
Berkeley educated radicals

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to Reagan voters.

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And it corresponded to the fitness boom,

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the self-help movement,
the focus on me before we.

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And so all those kinds
of threads came together

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in the creation of the show.

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- Yeah, how quickly it all happens.

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My parents were at Kent State in 1970.

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- Oh, wow.

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- There was the big shooting and all that.

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All of their friends now are
weirdo Trumphead, QAnon people.

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How quickly they all seamlessly messaged

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into a weird transition.

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We are not always who we
are, who we were, I guess.

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- That's right, that's right.

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And I think because sometimes
in the case of the character,

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in the show, the movement
that she was part of

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really let her down.

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The liberation that was promised

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didn't really come to her.

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In the domestic space she
didn't feel liberated.

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She felt even worse than before.

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So she kind of looks for a
new way to feel empowered.

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I think a lot of people do that.

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There's a disillusionment
with one movement

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and then they seized on another, right?

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And even though it's
seemingly very different.

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And so for her, it's
having been disillusioned

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by the progressive
liberalism of her husband.

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She kind of starts to embrace
this new set of values

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which are about physical
strength, economic power,

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that's where the liberation
is going to come.

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And that's the shift we're seeing in her

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in all its complexity.

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- Certainly having her husband
and his campaign manager

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being these really holding onto the 60s,

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does the 60s no favors, in her eyes.

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Because they're not great ideally.

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- No, they're not.

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I think they do believe in their ideals.

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It's just that the culture
kind of lets them get away

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with really convenient sexist behavior.

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And why would they give it up

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when nothing's forcing them to.

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- You talked a little bit about

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dealing with an eating disorder

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and Sheila's on the show
dealing with bulimia

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and she's got the sort of
running monologue in her mind

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berating and belittling herself.

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And for a while, when
I was watching the show

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it was making me feel kind of bad.

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Like I was sort of
absorbing it as a viewer.

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Like, "Oh she doesn't
want to look like me."

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Do you know what I mean?

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That's the wrong way to look or whatever.

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And you kind of walk this
fine line as a creator

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of having to eventually show
us that Sheila is very sick.

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Do you know what I mean?

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This is it.

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She is not the model.

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She is sort of the opposite of that.

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How did you sort of thread that needle?

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- It's just trying to be
honest to my own experience

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of feeling what I told
myself was so different

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from what I showed the world.

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And like you said, it was
really important to me

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to be both honest, but also
to think to be sensitive

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about everyone's experienced viewing it.

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So I think what we try to
get across with that voice

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as you said, is that that
is the voice of an illness.

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That is a voice telling her lies.

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And it's separating her from the world

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and it's perpetuating itself.

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It's sinking its teeth in

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and keeping her away from healing,

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which would come in with not
only acceptance of herself

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but just connection to other people.

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Like I said, it's a twisted voice,

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it's a voice of an illness and it's tough.

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It's uncomfortable to hear.

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And I think what we
hopefully root for is for her

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to just stop turning that voice on herself

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and on other women

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and start kind of redirecting
it where it belongs,

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against the real enemies in the world.

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I think a lot of women
relate to this feeling

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that we beat up on the wrong enemies,

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ourselves and one another.

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And that's what we want to
see her kind of heal from.

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- It's also like you have
to be able to watch the show

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from sort of this, it's
easy to watch a show

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and be like, "Fuck that dude, go do this."

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You know what I mean?

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But it's 2021 and we have to remember,

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she was in a prison of many dimensions.

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- That's right, and how not
only taboo but just unsafe

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it would be for her to
just walk out the door.

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This is a time when women

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couldn't get a small
business loan on their own

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without a husband co-signing.

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This is a time when she didn't have access

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to conventional means of power.

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And so, like you said,
it's easy for us to say,

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"Hey, go be one of
those lifestyle groups."

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That doesn't exist yet.

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Women had to invent that space

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because they had to find
that space for themselves

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to have power.

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I didn't have to do any research.

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Like I said, this is what it
was like in my own childhood.

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So I knew that to be true.

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- We also have the benefit of hindsight.

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Do you know what I mean?

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You're like, "Yeah,
making an exercise video

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that's a good idea, you should do that."

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But no one would have
known that at the time.

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- Yeah, exactly, so it's sort
of like she's gonna stumble

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into this great timing,

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in the emergence of this new technology.

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Which at this time has only
really available to her

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through surf videos that are
happening and pornography,

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and that's how she kind of
gets access to that technology

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she just stumbles across it.

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We're gonna watch that without
giving any big spoilers

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that turns out to be

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a really opportune coincidence of timing.

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- I read an interview with
Roseburg and the LA Times

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that you wrote the script
for Zigel eight years ago.

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Why do you think it sort of took this long

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for the show to get made?

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Was it about sort of where
you were in your career

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or do you think it's sort
of about a willingness

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to see a diversity of
stories about women or both?

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- I think it's both.

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I think it took me a long time to write.

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It took me a long time to share.

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I was scared of it.

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And I think that just this
opportunity came at Apple

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because of a longtime
creative relationship I had

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with one of the executives there,

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who I had shown this to.

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It was her time and her
moment there to say,

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"You know what I'm going
to make this happen there,"

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when she got into a
decision-making position.

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So I feel like it sort of came
along with me and my peers

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until we got to the place
where we could make it happen.

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- Being a writer in LA,

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one of my friend's name is Paul Bullock.

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He worked on Desperate Housewives.

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- I know Paul!

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Yeah, I know Paul.

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Paul's my buddy, Paul's lovely.

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- I was texting him last night.

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Do you know Annie, whatever?

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But it's such a strange role

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to just be like, "Yeah, I'm
just gonna work on this thing

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and it might take decades

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but I just have to hang
in there with this idea

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that I believe is a good one
and have 10 balls in the air."

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- That's right.
- And hope it works out.

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- Yeah, this was that kind of project.

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I mean, this was just a labor
of love thing that I wrote

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because I needed to write it for myself.

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And then who knew that it would happen?

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It probably will never happen again.

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But I just got the chance of a lifetime

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to make something that
I really cared about

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and make it at this level
which is kind of unheard of.

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- [Sheila] Only you have
the power to change you.

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Are you ready to change?

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♪ Video killed the radio star ♪